Pets at the Crag - Thoughts/Storytime/Discussion

LL2wrote:

Even two years ago, threads like this were dominated by the self-entitled and delusional "good boy" dog owners. Either they are tired of arguing their point, or they've actually come around and realized that their dog really can be a problem. I am hoping it is the second. I wonder what has changed? Crowds?

There's a lot, lot more people climbing than 2 years ago, but I wonder that too, maybe they are tired of being dogged.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

We didn't sleep much  mostly because we were worried that Bern would hear a critter in the night and bark waking everyone else up. he slep like a log snoring and farting while I tossed and turned and worried. the next morning while we were on our morning walk  we thought we were far enough away from camp to have Bern off  leash…  

I feel like I must not be understanding you.  You are so worried about your dog’s unruly behavior that you find it difficult to sleep, but then the next morning on a walk you decide it’s ok to let it off leash?   

I'm ok with crag dogs.  Got one myself, but we did run into a guy with THREE, and that seemed a bit much.  Seriously, three friggin dogs.

William.  Dog is  not  unruly.  I was worried that  he  might bark at a critter in the night and  wake other  people  up.  Dogs  barking at raccoons, coyotes and bears  is  normal  not  unruly.  Taking  a dog  off leash  6 miles deep  on a powerline  road  is not a  crime. We had  no idea someone was  hiding in the bushes 20ft from the road taking a dump.  Bern ran in there with a  bark but then  recognized the  boogeyman  in the bushes from  camp and most likely gave the poor guy  kisses.  Awkward and embarrassing but  not  worthy of a huge  drama.  It is a lesson  learned that it is not a good idea to  bring him to this  place.  BTW at the time of  this  incident the area was not even in a guide book  so we  thought we would have  it to  ourselves.  The book only  came out a week or so ago. 

BAdwrote:

I'm ok with crag dogs.  Got one myself, but we did run into a guy with THREE, and that seemed a bit much.  Seriously, three friggin dogs.

This sounds like "Everyone driving slower than me is a jackass and anyone driving faster than me is a maniac". Hopefully your dog is on a leash though.

Crag Cat wrote:

Discussion & Opinions—

In a perfect world, only well-behaved, non-disruptive pets would be present. And only in casual, low-key climbing areas (low potential for rock fall, single-pitch or bouldering, lower presence of wildlife). Also in a perfect world, pet owners would be responsible, considerate, and pick up their pet’s poo. 

I haven't read all the responses, so this has probably been said, but we don't live in a perfect world and never will. Not even close. If you leave your pet unattended at the crag (cat, dog, rabbit, whatever), even ten feet away while you are toproping a nearby route, you are assuming the risk of them encountering the worst dog/worst dog owner on any given day. It probably won't happen, but it very well could happen. The type of climbing area you describe (local crag, single pitch or bouldering) is exactly the same place that is most likely to attract bad pet owners and their companions. As the proud servant of three rescue kitties, I would never put them in that position.   

I know where your heart is, and the fault lies with the bad dogs and the people who chose to bring them to the crag unleashed. However, you have to assume all possible risks of bringing your cat to the outdoors on a leash. The risk of encountering a bad dog is the most obvious potential risk. I am glad your kitty is OK, it could have been much worse.   

Arguing that dogs should be at crags is arguing with emotion. Arguing that they shouldn't be there is arguing with logic.

Sorry Nick, but you are in the wrong.

Assuming National Forest, dogs must be kept on a leash no longer than 6ft while on developed recreation areas and interpretive trails. Most other areas of National Forest do not require dogs to be kept on leash at all times, but they should be under control at all times.

No matter how much of a Good Boy he seems to you, he ran out into the bushes, he was not under control.

What makes you think it was national forest?  This VT not the great wild west. most likly power company land. Whatever. Dude was too close to the road taking a shit , should you yell at him also?  there are a million fckn laws out there and if you are going to accost everyone you meet with a lecture about how they are breaking the law you are a total PINTA tool. Obviously if a dog is aggressive it gets spoken to in way that includes the owner regardless if its on leash or not.  If its not aggressive  and doesn't bother you then mind your own fking business just as you would if someone was smoking a joint or drinking a beer in public. unless of course you are that wanna be cop tool that has to stick your nose in everyone else's business.   If any of you guys had actually read what I wrote you would have realized that the whole point of my post is that despite not wanting to be typical dog owners we are in fact typical dog owners....   Seriously if you are a climber and thinking about getting a dog. STOP! step away from the computer and do not browse any more of those cute rescue videos.  Don't do it. It will seriously limit your climbing dreams from the moment you pick up that pooch  to the rest of your life. Done deal. 

Crag Catwrote:

At least it’s a throw away account. For a sec I thought I was gonna have to fight someone. 

Funny how I, along with many of you, got sucked into a  conversation with a person with an admittedly “throw away account”.  The author took liberty to creatively write unlikely stories and got us to spend time away from our animals to read and respond.
I refuse to weigh-in… just keep your dogs kenneled and cats at home!!!

Cheers

PS pack out your dogs poop if it escapes from the kennel!!! 

I love both dogs and cats. Boy, it would be so awesome to see a crag cat. Especially if she would let me pet her. But after hearing about how she almost landed in some dog’s mouth, I am not sure bringing the cat would be wise. You know there will always dog owners with unleashed dogs who are in denial about how well behaved their dogs are. That being said I love seeing well behaved dogs at the crag. I saw one yesterday. Made no noise, allowed us to pet him, he was leashed, and even though he was sitting a foot away from my friend’s lunch (with plenty of leash room to get it) he didn’t even look twice at that lunch. Yeah. That dog added to my enjoyment of the day for sure. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

 Seriously if you are a climber and thinking about getting a dog. STOP! step away from the computer and do not browse any more of those cute rescue videos.  Don't do it. It will seriously limit your climbing dreams from the moment you pick up that pooch  to the rest of your life. Done deal. 

That sounds the exact same as having a family, a real job, a house, or any other actual responsibly in life.  As great as climbing is, at some point we have to stop being selfish and realize we can make compromises and still be happy. Get a dog and climb slightly less, or train your dog well and bring it to less crags. And leave it at home or with a friend for big days.  I’d say in the scheme of things my dog brings more happiness then it takes away. 

For sure, that's a choice you can make... Just don't make it for me

A very friendly golden retriever was at the crag today and it walked right on top of my flaked out rope while I was going through a safety check with my belayer, twice. The owner was teaching their climber how to clean an anchor while the climber was at the anchor so she could just said sorry and tried to call the dog over while it was zooming back and forth behind us. I like dogs, I have a dog, I don't bring my dog to the crag.   

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

 Dude was too close to the road taking a shit…

So your off leash dog ran outside of your control and approached someone without the behavioral or physical restraint that you as the owner are obligated to provide for the safety of others and your dog himself, and your assessment of that situation is “lesson learned not to bring him to this place” but also “he was probably giving him kisses” and “dude was too close to the road?”  I‘ll be honest, I am struggling with finding a way to see this in a positive light.  

Dude,  just  shoot  me and  Bernie.  I  know that's what you really want to do..

I think Nick has provided an excellent demonstration of why yelling at dog owners isn't helpful. He started out telling a story about realizing his dog was not well-trained, and as he felt attacked, decided maybe his dog's behavior was OK, and then ended up feeling persecuted. I'd bet Bernie is way more likely to be off leash or even at a crag now than he was a few pages ago.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Dude,  just  shoot  me and  Bernie.  I  know that's what you really want to do..

I don’t own a gun and I’m certainly not interested in shooting any animal, human or otherwise.  I have no idea where that is coming from.  

I am implying that you‘re obligated keep your dog on a leash if you can’t control it verbally.  I love my rescue dog and have put a good bit of effort into training him but when he sees squirrels or other dogs he blanks out and won’t respond to my commands so I keep him on a leash.  It’s just bare minimum responsible dog ownership.