Economics of the climbing boom

Who is profiting from the increased popularity of climbing? Is anyone getting filthy rich?

Who is losing? 

Who subsidizes the winners?

The increase in climbing content is notable and pretty neato. Also means climbing education is far more accessible than ever before. People that like to consume climbing content are definitely winning. 

Winners are primarily Patagonia and Arc’teryx. Not saying these companies don’t deserve to strike gold, but damn do I hate seeing Drake in a Cerium.

Ricky Harlinewrote:

The increase in climbing content is notable and pretty neato. Also means climbing education is far more accessible than ever before. People that like to consume climbing content are definitely winning. 

Do you think that the creators of said content are being well compensated for their work? Does anyone know if writers for Climbing got a pay increase when much of Climbing's content went behind a paywall?

Rocrateswrote:

Winners are primarily Patagonia and Arc’teryx. Not saying these companies don’t deserve to strike gold, but damn do I hate seeing Drake in a Cerium.

Maybe Patagonia, but I heard recently, from a former employer, that all the talented people in Vancouver who worked for Arcteryx, especially in R&D, have quit and are working elsewhere (most at Mustang Survival and Lululemon) after the Chinese billionaire bought their company out.

Insurance companies for climbing gyms mostly. Maybe the only real candidates for "filthy rich".

Rich? Maybe a few climbing gyms, a few climbing lifestyle soft goods companies. Potentially some hardware companies, but that's a hard business.

Dirtbag Betawrote:

Do you think that the creators of said content are being well compensated for their work? Does anyone know if writers for Climbing got a pay increase when much of Climbing's content went behind a paywall?

No. Hard Is Easy on YouTube probably makes decent money though. 

But yeah, mostly no. 

Rocrateswrote:

Winners are primarily Patagonia and Arc’teryx. Not saying these companies don’t deserve to strike gold, but damn do I hate seeing Drake in a Cerium.

Who do you think takes up a larger portion of Arc'terxy advertising budget, Drizzy or JStar?

Winners: Affiliate marketers, content creators, Sprinter dealerships

Losers: Land managers, introverts. 

That guy with the mustache and the Subaru sponsorship gotta be one of the more well to do dirtbags out there 

Timothy Carlsonwrote:

Winners: Affiliate marketers, content creators, Sprinter dealerships

Losers: Land managers, introverts. 

When you say "content creators" who are you referring to? Youtubers, Insta-influencers, podcasters? I wonder about them, are they really making dough? I have a feeling that a lot of them are actually producing subsidized advertisements for "climbing brands" and are mainly compensated with ego-stroking and social status. The ones who are making it a surely working harder than your average desk jockey and making comparable or less income.

Land managers are definitely getting the short end of the stick. overworked, underpaid, underappreciated, and generally jaded.

Big Nylon and Big Aluminum, mostly. Oh..... BIG GLUE.

Dirtbag Betawrote:

When you say "content creators" who are you referring to? Youtubers, Insta-influencers, podcasters? I wonder about them, are they really making dough? I have a feeling that a lot of them are actually producing subsidized advertisements for "climbing brands" and are mainly compensated with ego-stroking and social status. The ones who are making it a surely working harder than your average desk jockey and making comparable or less income.

Land managers are definitely getting the short end of the stick. overworked, underpaid, underappreciated, and generally jaded.

Depends on if you consider Jimmy Chin a ‘content creator’ or not. Probably skews the average. 

Something like 90 employees at Climbing Magazine and related got laid off when they got bought out, whatever that means.

Dirtbag Betawrote:

Who is profiting from the increased popularity of climbing?

Gyms, gear manufacturers, marketing companies that have contracts with manufacturers, shipping companies inadvertently that move the purchased products, pro athletes at the highest levels, the AAC and AF.

 Is anyone getting filthy rich?

Maybe?  Idk, hard to get that information.

Who is losing? 

Crags and climbers that have been in the game a while, arguably.

Who subsidizes the winners?

Gumbies.

It's not the people mining for gold that got rich, it was the people who supported the miners. 

Greg Dwrote:

Something like 90 employees at Climbing Magazine and related got laid off when they got bought out, whatever that means.

What it means is that there is not a climbing media outlet of record in the United States. Clickbait, listicles and legacy posts are all I see there anymore with Outside's feed having priority if you click on a Google search result for the "magazine"

I'm saving up for the inside track on Outside Coin. Deets here. outside.io/

This will end in tears.

Dirtbag Betawrote:

Who is profiting from the increased popularity of climbing? Is anyone getting filthy rich?

Who is losing? 

Who subsidizes the winners?

Call me cynical, but I feel like the winners of this are the same as the winners of everything: executives and major shareholders of corporations, who in most cases are just profiting off of labor without doing any of it themselves and have no knowledge or interest in climbing. Yvon Chouinard might be a rare exception to the "no knowledge or interest in climbing". But he's not an exception to the "profiting off labor without doing any of it themselves". A quick search shows his net worth at $1.5 billion and nobody works that much.

So, labor and consumers subsidizing the rich, as usual.

The age when a guy could competitively make gear in his garage and sell it are over. Even small companies are probably on the downswing: when Totem's patent expires (isn't that soon?) you better bet they're gonna be copied.

David Kwrote:

Call me cynical, but I feel like the winners of this are the same as the winners of everything: executives and major shareholders of corporations, who in most cases are just profiting off of labor without doing any of it themselves and have no knowledge or interest in climbing.

[…]

So, labor and consumers subsidizing the rich, as usual.

Buy Metolius, UnParallel, DMM. Some people still care about making great climbing products and not lining the pockets of the Chinese government. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

No. Hard Is Easy on YouTube probably makes decent money though. 

But yeah, mostly no. 

https://youtu.be/pP4tACI3034

Pretty much makes $1 per 1k views so he averaged about 60-150 per video. Makes one every other week. 

I'm skeptical about the idea that owners of climbing gyms are getting rich. Covid hit them hard. The gym I climb at is big and fancy, and membership is expensive, so they do have a lot of income, but they also have a lot of expenses. For the last week, they've had a team of three route-setters working full time.  That's a lot of labor to pay for. Front desk employees and people leading children's programs make $16/hour, but they also have a considerable number of employees who are full time, do more specialized work, and I'm sure get pretty good pay plus health benefits. I don't know how much they pay every month for insurance and rent/mortgage, but I'm sure it's not cheap. I had a casual conversation last year with one of the managers, who was familiar with their finances, and although I didn't hear any numerical figures and my memory is hazy, my impression was that they just barely survived covid, IIRC partly because of government support.