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Type II fun seekers
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Here is a Big Think article about type II fun. Why a Meaningful Life is Impossible Without Suffering |
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Sorry but jumping in cold water, no matter how cold, is NOT type 2 fun. There is no risk, there is no real suffering. Just a complete misunderstanding of what type 2 fun really is. |
Jan Mcwrote: We have very different cold tolerances obviously. |
Jan Mcwrote: Did you read the article or just look at a single pretty picture? Nowhere in the article does it mention jumping in cold water. |
Marc Hwrote:  |
Jan Mcwrote: No Risk? Hypothermia? Trapped under ice? Shock? Drowning? No suffering? I was seeing stars and almost blacked out on the run back to the tent after a polar plunge. Type II fun is exactly what jumping in cold water is, if it's cold enough. |
Jake Fosterwrote: Well, after reading your comment I have fulfilled my type-2 fun quota for the day. |
Jake Fosterwrote: Seeing how much faith you put in a photo to accurately summarize the content of an article makes me wonder if you ever moved beyond picture books in your schooling. If I told you the article discussed BDSM would you actually read it? It's not even long. Anyway, to add to the discussion of the ARTICLE: I'd like to point out that the Alan Watts "thought experiment" wasn't a thought experiment so much as his attempt to put into plain words the Hindu philosophy of Vendanta. Which (to my incomplete understanding) boils down to the idea that god is everything. We are god's dream. You are god. I am god. Every being, every thing, is god (i.e. the energy of the universe, vibrations, etc. Whatever "name" you want to give the larger Life of life beyond life that manifests in the countless ways we see and experience). Even crazier is that "god" is manifesting in all these ways in order to discover and learn about itself. He was getting at the belief in the oneness of the universe. Which also can be an extremely powerful force in overcoming perceived suffering. Have you ever entered the flow state in an extreme situation? In ultra running when your thoughts dissolve and the pain changes into just being and you can't tell if your running or if the earth is rolling under you. When you're climbing through fear and no longer feel where your self ends and the rock begins. When you realize that suffering and pleasure are not opposites but two sides of the same coin. In fact, the very same essence manifesting in ways that your ego either embraces or rejects thus giving the feeling of pleasure or suffering. I know it all sounds very hippy dippy, but it's a powerful feeling that I think many of us can relate to. |
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Is the Alan Watts mentioned in the article the same Alan Watts who developed Smith? |
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I believe the key to finding meaning in failure is a desire to learn from failure. If one only focuses on the failure, then little is gained and disappointment is all that's left. If one strives to learn from failure, then I think it can become extremely meaningful. I wouldn't call any day of climbing I've had as miserable, but definitely type two in some cases. Scared, run out, bad weather. If accepted and embraced, can all help our consious mind quiet and let the wisdom of the unconsious take hold (Flow state!). I think that is what I'm alluding to. Perhaps the subjectivity of experience makes it difficult to have a consensus on what one considers type two fun. If spicy = pain. Then why do we characterize some climbs as spicy? Wouldn't that imply a level of suffering, albeit emotional suffering due to fear? I think we all enjoy suffering, to some extent. But if suffering is enjoyed, is it still suffering? |
Emilio Sosawrote: He was a philosopher that made eastern philosophies digestible to western audiences. I think his book, The Book, is an excellent read if you're at all interested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts |
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Off topic: Not Hobo - did you do that swim to climb a sea stack? If so, I've probably done it too. Certainly adds to the experience. |
Tradibanwrote: The world would definitely get along a bit better if we could all recognize that there is and always will be two sides to a coin. |
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Jake Foster wrote: To OP, what an idiot. The question should be, did you actually read the article before posting it? The one and only picture in that article is a person jumping in cold water. Unreal. I did read the article before I posted it, which is why I knew that cold-water swimming wasn't mentioned. The photo is labeled "Adobe Stock" and was obviously placed to get people to continue reading; that's the nature of the Internet these days. Jan decided to judge the article based on a header photo and clearly didn't read the article. Now you're defending him and calling me an idiot, which just provides me more laughs. |
Tradibanwrote: I would say it's really more accurately a Catholic thing honestly. Buddhist nirvana is really just emptiness. Never understood the appeal of that form of paganism. |
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I feel like the article just throws "pain" and "suffering" around like they're interchangeable. I hope it doesn't work that way, cause I don't feel pain in a flow state or in the opposite, a gripped state. In either case scrapes, bruises, gobies, etc. all go un-noticed 'till I'm at a rest. So if I needed to be feeling that pain to get any meaning, I guess I messed up. Suffering on the other hand... |
JonasMRwrote: Exactly, "pain" is not "suffering" in a spiritual and physical sense. The article is just the white person's interpretation of meditation. |
JonasMRwrote: Suffering arises from the resistance to pain. In other words pain x resistance = suffering. You see children suffer from a small scrape because they focus on the pain and resist the experience. I would hope that pain from a scrape when your climbing wouldn't result in suffering. Tradiban, no reason to bring race into it. At worst, it's a westerner's incomplete understanding of certain philosophical principals (not even meditation). Be nicer, man. |
