A sign of the times? (please help me understand the world we now live in)

Trad Manwrote:

1) We decided to climb one of the "sport" lines (on the second tier wall that has the fixed line). It was a very casual lead with gear. I approached it like any FA and saw the 3rd pitch went into a gully with bolts haphazardly strewn about including one on a huge rock just resting on the dirt.

2) Most of my top anchors for bringing my 2nd were a bowline using the climbing rope and no further gear was necessary, let alone a rotary hammer .

3) I don't have an issue with bolts per-se and even placed (a camo'd) one on lead on the same wall.

1) How did you approach this line “like any other FA?” Considering you were climbing a “sport route,” with bolts already in the wall, wouldn’t that mean you were climbing past someone else’s bolts… ie someone else had “gone up” prior to you being there? And I’ll bet you counted that towards your 28.

2) Did you have a rotary hammer with your stashed gear, or a hand drill? I ask because of #3….

3) How many bolts in total did you place while you were here in Colorado?

My guess is since you admitted to having at least placed one “camo’d bolt,” you had the capability to place more than just one… what are the chances you’re the type of guy who would place a bolt in the most horrible of places (on a loose block hanging out in a gulley), and then go spray on mountain project about people placing shitty bolts, using a picture of said bolt as backing for your original premise? 

christoph benellswrote:

Love those digital camo pants this guy climbs in

Tell us more about proper climbing fashion Christopher.

As a true purist of climbing.. I climb with no fixed gear, no rope, don't use chalk, no shoes, and otherwise climb naked. Not sure what this dudes problem is wearing pants. What a blow hard.

M Mwrote:

Tell us more about proper climbing fashion Christopher.

I’d like to hear more about proper climbing fashion. You seem to be the expert on this subject Montoya - please educate us.

Chad Millerwrote:

 proper climbing fashion. 

F r i t zwrote:

Id let him touch me taint 

M Mwrote:

Tell us more about proper climbing fashion Christopher.

It's just that the pants match the rant, that's all.

christoph benellswrote:

It's just that the pants match the rant, that's all.

I tend to not make fun of people wearing camo, you can usually expect they are either returned military or possibly a well armed lunatic. It was an epic rant 

M Mwrote:

Ball cup much Chad?

Meh - I’m comfortable with myself so your homophobic comments have no power. Besides you’re the one policing the fashion police.     

M Mwrote:

I tend to not make fun of people wearing camo, you can usually expect they are either returned military or possibly a well armed lunatic. It was an epic rant 

Here I thought it was because you’re mature enough not to do those things. Good to know you only hold back insults when you’re afraid of someone fighting back.   

I'm just moseying into the discussion here, but I don't think developing crags with accessibility to disabled folks should be a real standard. It could mean bolting a few 5.3 routes here and there, but pretty soon we're bolting 4th class and the approach. If we bolt everything down to 5.3  our crags will be a shit show through and through and our relationships with land managers suffer. Have we considered building a wheelchair ramp so I can take my grandma up the nose on el cap?

Where's Waldenwrote:

I'm just moseying into the discussion here, but I don't think developing crags with accessibility to disabled folks should be a real standard. It could mean bolting a few 5.3 routes here and there, but pretty soon we're bolting 4th class and the approach. If we bolt everything down to 5.3  our crags will be a shit show through and through and our relationships with land managers suffer. Have we considered building a wheelchair ramp so I can take my grandma up the nose on el cap?

Damn bro…. You’re a mega stand up dude…. 

this is an obscure chossy crag pretty far from the majority of climbing here…

@tradman obsession to climb at MM for a Week and claim more FAs than even exist on the rock sound like personal problems…

Disabled parties have a right to climb too and if that means bolting a random 5.3 out of the way of people, I say go for it.  

Where's Waldenwrote:

I'm just moseying into the discussion here, but I don't think developing crags with accessibility to disabled folks should be a real standard. It could mean bolting a few 5.3 routes here and there, but pretty soon we're bolting 4th class and the approach. If we bolt everything down to 5.3  our crags will be a shit show through and through and our relationships with land managers suffer. Have we considered building a wheelchair ramp so I can take my grandma up the nose on el cap?

I don't think anyone is proposing doing that in this thread.

Where's Waldenwrote:

I'm just moseying into the discussion here, but I don't think developing crags with accessibility to disabled folks should be a real standard. It could mean bolting a few 5.3 routes here and there, but pretty soon we're bolting 4th class and the approach. If we bolt everything down to 5.3  our crags will be a shit show through and through and our relationships with land managers suffer. Have we considered building a wheelchair ramp so I can take my grandma up the nose on el cap?

The amount of pearl clutching in these threads never ceases to amaze. Not sure who is suggesting every 5.3 ramp be bolted? 

Most people aren't climbing 5.3 anyway so not sure why if they are bolted it will somehow create a shit show? 

It's honestly pretty weak to make this "we shouldn't bolt easy things because I'm stronger" argument when we all started weak and some people still want to have a good time even though they aren't able to climb 5.harder.

Where's Waldenwrote:

Hey, no need to attack my character on the basis of my concern in a discussion about the "anyone bolts anything" model of development. 

Looking through your tick list, am I safe in assuming that you are indeed physically disabled? You're weak, man. 

M Dwrote:

Damn bro…. You’re a mega stand up dude…. 

this is an obscure chossy crag pretty far from the majority of climbing here…

@tradman obsession to climb at MM for a Week and claim more FAs than even exist on the rock sound like personal problems…

Disabled parties have a right to climb too and if that means bolting a random 5.3 out of the way of people, I say go for it.  

How obscure, chossy, and far does a crag have to be in order to qualify for an "anything goes" bolting ethos?

Tradibanwrote:

How obscure, chossy, and far does a crag have to be in order to qualify for an "anything goes" bolting ethos?

I don’t think putting up two 5.3’s for adaptive climbers is an “anything goes” bolting ethos.