How often do you enter the “No Fall Zone”

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

The macho folks who say you need 70m ropes on everything so you can run pitches together and be super cool seem to have no grasp of what that means if you take what you think is going to be a 6t fall when you have 65m of rope in the system or what it means if the 2nd falls shortly after leaving the belay on a long pitch like that. . 

That's a "no fall zone".

Tradibanwrote:

That's a "no fall zone".

Post deleted because what's the point.

Eric Metzgarwrote:

I'd wager 95% of the machismo on this thread is young guys without children whose minds haven't wandered far enough down the reward/risk road to imagine the real-life difference between:  1) Topping out/cheering/success/pride... versus.... 2) Months recovering from injury/Spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair/Dying. But it's understandable. The latest research is saying that men's brains, in particular, don't/can't conjure the reality of consequences until mid to late 20's.  Some judges are even factoring this into their thinking when faced with young offenders who take seemingly ridiculous risks, because in the kids' minds, there was no risk evaluation -- there was only desire.

Yes, but....

It's also pretty normal to think bad stuff won't happen to you....until life teaches you otherwise. I've known middle aged dudes who still only had an intellectual grasp of their motality if even that. Scary people to be out with.

Best, Helen

Although spicy trad only occupies a small portion of the climbing experience in 2022, I would argue that it is an integral component and should be preserved.

If a route is too heady or hard for someone, they should bring themselves up to its level by hard work, instead of bringing the route down to their level.

There are plenty of routes within my ability that I would love to climb, but I'm not mentally ready for them. Perhaps I never will be. That's ok. 

On the other hand, when I'm sport climbing, I will gladly stickclip the second or third bolt. My risk tolerance drops drastically on sport days. (Not all bolt-protected climbs are sport, of course).

On the prussik (third hand), if a route had good fixed hardware for the FA years ago but now is significantly spicier due to entropy, I have no problem with 1:1 replacement.

@Chad: Got it, thanks for the clarification.

Where's Waldenwrote:

I've been climbing single pitch trad for a month and I've probably entered the no fall zone 15 times, but probably all but 2 were voluntary run-outs. 

That seems unwise. One of the main benefits of climbing trad far below your abilities in the beginning is getting efficient at seeing and placing gear. In the long-term, it could be more beneficial for you to take advantage of these easy routes to get efficient at placing gear. (look for gear that will protect your move, pick the right size and type of pro on your first try, place it well, extend or not and why, clip, move on).  Then, when you're climbing harder trad, placing gear won't be as difficult, you'll move faster, be safer, etc.

Food for thought.

Mark Starrwrote:

That seems unwise. 

Where's Walden is a certified baller. When he said "I've been climbing single-pitch trad for the past month,"  I'm sure he meant that he has been concentrating on that discipline exclusively for the past thirty days -- not that he started leading trad a month ago. :-)

Your advice is on point for a new leader, however.

I’m surprised that folks are taking ground falls/bad falls so lightly. I fell only 15 feet in an easy terrain (and in my mind no fall zone). My gear held. I ended up with a broken back and a severe concussion. I hit my head hard enough my helmet cracked and flew off. I bled all over the wall (scalp wounds bleed a lot). But I guess that wasn’t a no fall zone for some folks because I didn’t die or get dismembered. 

And I have two climbing partners whose ankles still bother them decades after their bad fall. It’s affected their range of motion on that foot forever and they still experience pain. One of them still has trouble in a similar terrain as result of mental trauma of the fall and rescue. I say they fell on a no fall zone. So sorry if these falls and injuries are not significant enough for you. 

F r i t zwrote:

Where's Walden is a certified baller. When he said "I've been climbing single-pitch trad for the past month,"  I'm sure he meant that he has been concentrating on that discipline exclusively for the past thirty days -- not that he started leading trad a month ago. :-)

Your advice is on point for a new leader, however.

Lol my bad. Guess I should check profiles in the future. Carry on, y'all. 

When you hit 65 years of age you're there everyday.

More seriously - I like to run it on gear when I'm on easy terrain, stuff I'm confident on and know that if I focus chances of a fall are small. Putting in a pretty high first piece, or just long, long stretches between pieces, with just one (or none sometimes) between me and the ground when being higher up. The point to me is that I want to feel comfortable when I get in that situation, without necessarily wanting to - multipitches where I might be off route, or just harder/poorer gear than anticipate. Or just climbing at my limit above my gear. Or maybe I just need to space out gear for a long pitch. I find that being confident about that situation helps me when I have to commit on gear, even when it is relatively safe. Or just routes where the topography makes it mandatory to not fall in certain places. Basically, I'm trying to practice being in a situation where I must not fall while I decide it and I am in control, so that when I'm not in control, I don't feel out of my depths.

I think it works - for what it's worth, most people I climb with seem to consider I have a good lead head, whatever the circumstances.

Not that often now at 55 years of age. But I will say that I've entered this zone more than a few times, at Tres Piedras. And  not expecting to do so. I found msdelf doing a 20-foot runout over the smallest RB made (as far as I know, and 30 years old at that). There was no reason to fall on the slab, but if I did, it was going to be ugly.