Softest and Stiffest Trad Routes per Grade in WA

In your opinion what are the softest and stiffest trad climbs per grade in the state of Washington?

Example

5.8, Stiffest: Glass Eye/ Aries (Careno Crag/ Index), overhanging thin hands and a chimney that tries everything in its power to spit you out.  Softest: Southwest Rib (SEWS) Maybe only one 5.8 move on the entire route. 

5.9, Stiffest: Celestial Groove (Pearly Gates), the burly hand crack start feels harder than the 10C next door. Softest: Plum Pudding (Index) Straightforward low angle layback.

Easy: 

Air Guitar 10a at vantage: was scared while leading it because Goran died on it (and you can see the memorial plaque while climbing it), but at Smith's Lower Gorge it would be a 5.9 or even 5.8

Hard: 

Dastardly Crack 5.9 at Beacon Rock: feels as hard as the 10b routes there or most places.

Plus1 on Celestial Groove, and not just for the start, it's hard up high as well. Felt more a 10btrad line.

West face Jello tower pretty stiff for 5.8, of course it was only a 7 the first time I led it. Classic Crack is soft. 

The nose of jello tower, and z crack both feel stiff for 10+ plus to me. I’d also throw view from the bridge in as a stiff 10+.

Vantage in general is soft. Jihad would probably be 10b in Leavenworth or Index, red m&ms would probably be 11-(I actually think view from the bridge 10+ is harder), and air guitar 5.8.

Jihad was originally rated 12c.    That written, I failed on a Vantage .11 last weekend so I am saying nothing else!

Darryl Cramerwrote:

Jihad was originally rated 12c.    

Maybe half of the route has fallen off since then making it much easier? lol

100% agree that the Buttlips chimney on Aries is one of the hardest “5.8” moves around.

I tend to side with Harrington that Damnation crack is one of the stiffest 9’s in the state.

Vantage definitely has more “modern” (see: soft) rated routes but you can find some old school Bill Robbins 5.9s on the Middle East wall that could give you a run for your money.

Not that it should make the top of the list, but Revolver in Darrington boasts the single hardest 10a slab move I’ve encountered on the west coast. The rest is pretty cruiser, but that single move is a make or break pants shitting slap and prey fest. Good times

Haven’t done enough to say but the Aries chimney I actually just heel hooked the jug, it was henious but I can’t even imagine doing it any other way!

The vantage routes have had so much rock fall, contrivedness, and height dependence I don’t even know how the pillars should be graded!! 

Oh! The 5.8 chimney at the top of west face of colchuck balanced rock. That shits like a Yosemite 5.8 chimney (read mid 5.10) and way harder than the butlips imo 

It's kind of funny to see aries listed as a hard 8. It would be pretty standard 8 at areas with a modest amount of wide climbing.

Hardest for the grade. Hmmm. Tough question. There was a 9 somewhere near ski tracks that had a hard dirty mantle tha was kind of eye opening.

Easiest for the grade? Probably thin fingers. Everybody tells you index is so stiff, somebody died on it, etc. I was kind of disappointed by it.

saign charlesteinwrote:

The nose of jello tower, and z crack both feel stiff for 10+ plus to me. I’d also throw view from the bridge in as a stiff 10+.

Vantage in general is soft. Jihad would probably be 10b in Leavenworth or Index, red m&ms would probably be 11-(I actually think view from the bridge 10+ is harder), and air guitar 5.8.

Nose got re-rated in the new guidebook as 11-

Most of the softest individual pitch grades (and this is not unique to WA, same goes for El Cap or Zion or the Diamond) are on longer routes, not at popular single pitch areas.

The Passenger, West face of CBR, last pitch of Der Sportsman and Southern Man were all rated .12a while there are many .11c climbs that are tougher. The West Face of North Early, graded 5.11-, and long corner on CBR (.11-) are both easier than most classic .10d single pitch routes. But the most sandbagged pitch in Washington might be 'Journey to Pitar' (.11d.) The softest .11d probably has a crux that's 4 V grades easier.

The Amphibian. Index. 10d is hilarious.

Maybe just my poor technique but the lamp lighter pitch on heavens gate at index was a challenging 10c

Index 10s are all over the place. Breakfast of Champions, Libra and Davis-Holland, all sandbagged at 10a, are about as hard as Thin Fingers (11a). Others are comparable to Squamish and Joshua Tree. Weird as they are, for some reason, long-standing Index ratings can never be changed.

Buttlips is pretty hard climbing in range of gear placements. I think it's generally accepted that if it's totally dry, you place zero gear and climb further out it's 5.8. Special K (also 5.8) is a walk up in comparison. 

100% agree breakfast of champions (10a) is super tricky. On the other hand, Chasin' the Lizard (also 10a) felt pretty chill. 

Curt Veldhuisenwrote:

Index 10s are all over the place. Breakfast of Champions, Libra and Davis-Holland, all sandbagged at 10a, are about as hard as Thin Fingers (11a). Others are comparable to Squamish and Joshua Tree. Weird as they are, for some reason, long-standing Index ratings can never be changed.

I've been on both BoC and Thin Fingers and I'd say that BoC is barely harder than Toxic Shock. So if Toxic Shock stands at 5.9, then I'd rate BoC a 5.9+ or 5.10a. Thin Fingers, on the other hand, is far harder and I haven't been able to do the "boulder problem" in the middle yet. Haven't been on Libra or Davis-Holland so can't speak to those.

Jacob Posnerwrote:

I've been on both BoC and Thin Fingers and I'd say that BoC is barely harder than Toxic Shock. So if Toxic Shock stands at 5.9, then I'd rate BoC a 5.9+ or 5.10a. Thin Fingers, on the other hand, is far harder and I haven't been able to do the "boulder problem" in the middle yet. Haven't been on Libra or Davis-Holland so can't speak to those.

BoC seemed like insecure thin hands vs. secure layback/amazing hands on Toxic Shock but it was a while ago. 

Agreed that slab move is tricky, I won't complain about calling it 11a. 

Zachary Winterswrote:

The Amphibian. Index. 10d is hilarious.

Someone once told me that the key for a Michal route is to first become a master of the compression move. 

J Bwrote:

BoC seemed like insecure thin hands vs. secure layback/amazing hands on Toxic Shock but it was a while ago. 

Agreed that slab move is tricky, I won't complain about calling it 11a. 

I remember BoC being only slightly thinner. Maybe my hands are just the perfect size for both :)

For consideration: Tommy Dutra Memorial Route (Short) for least-secure-feeling 5.8 -- at least the lower section.

+1 for Libra crack being a huge sandbag at 10a, its the same difficulty as Heart of Darkness in J tree, a soft 11 but a J tree 5.11- regardless.