Should Personal Climbing Ethics Be a Secret?

I long ago stopped reading your inane posts, but I click on them all just to read people rip on you. Especially the people first encountering you who quickly realize there's no there there. Please keep up the pointless posts, I need some filler in my life.

Reese Stanleywrote:

I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that only cutting edge ascents are worth discussing.  I think if you look at the conversations that regular climbers have, most of them are about routes that nobody cares about... since that's what 99% of climbers are climbing.  Part of the fun of climbing is sharing your experiences with other people.  In fact, I have way more fun commiserating about how we had to grovel up a V4 than I do talking about Silence.

Ethics can differ, experiences can be shared, success can be different, we agree.  "Free As Can Be" is a wonderful film, to that end.  Did Mark Hudon free the entirety of El Cap?  No.  Do I absolutely respect the hell out of him and consider his journey to be a success?  Absolutely, it was the most inspiring and impactful climbing film I've ever seen.  Mark is an inspiration, and I aspire to be like him when I grow older.

This is what I am advocating for. If you say anything on mountain project about a route you didn't send in the best style you will get flamed. Do people even need to know what you think is personally good enough?

Everyone benefits from good stories being told, or cutting edge ascents pushing the boundaries of the sport.  There's no harm being done.  If someone gets a bit of personal satisfaction recounting a harrowing ascent, or something they spent days on, or spent years of their life training for, I say let them have it.  The benefits of sharing that experience outweigh a tiny bit of personal satisfaction/ego being involved.  I want to share the joy, memories, experiences and passion that I have with other people, and I want them to share their joy, memories, experiences and passion with me.  It's one of the biggest joys in life and I think everyone is better off spreading their joy and happiness around than keeping it to themselves.  I'd rather hear a good story, or a funny memory from someone than ensure their experience was devoid of ego.  

But I think if you remove the ethic component you would get better stories. I have people who are "kinda" friends that after telling them a story and showing them a video of me climbing a route, they said it wasn't a true redpoint because I stick clipped the second bolt. I think if people get off their ethical high horse better story telling will happen. 

Go Back to Super Topo wrote:

Huh? Did we not watch the same movie that focused almost entirely on ethics for almost half of the film…I must have been confused the entire Royal Robbins vs. Warren Harding section.

But then the movie shows you that being dogmatic about ethics held people back.

J T wrote:

Have you ever even touched Evolution?! Lmao. But if you can also get hundreds of other people to agree and make it consensus then, yes. The issue you keep failing to understand is that everything you are saying is relative to the climbing population as a whole so when we talk about these things we are talking about the overall majority and consensus, not weird hypotheticals.

Why do you need a consensus? Why not just do what you want? I thought climbers were supposed to be independent. 

If you can provide more than this one example, let’s say 5-8, then I will succumb that I am wrong about varying styles of sending/grading nuances…even if the vast majority differs.

Off the top of my head lingere in vantage, stemming ms in vantage, viagro at world wall, aparasian dog in mazama, the finger crack in the zelda boulders in index all have rules listed in their respective guidebooks.

To address your last comment. I really don’t care what any individual deems as successful, or really what they consider a “send” is. However, if we are talking about the climbing consensus I’m trying to make sure you know you sound ridiculous. Additionally, you should watch the madrock video on Nate Droughn and his “sends”. It may put into perspective why “sending” is important to individuals and their peers.  

Once again what does the consensus do for you? Why can't you just do what ever you want as long as you don't alter the climb?

bryanswrote:

I long ago stopped reading your inane posts, but I click on them all just to read people rip on you. Especially the people first encountering you who quickly realize there's no there there. Please keep up the pointless posts, I need some filler in my life.

Seems a bit mean spirited. I want people to be nice to each other.

Also if ethics were private we wouldn’t have never ending bolt war threads. 

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

But then the movie shows you that being dogmatic about ethics held people back.

Nickyoungmeme.jpg

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Why do you need a consensus?

I don’t, and you might not either...but for many climbers they like having a consensus to record progress or to push themselves for their own personal reasons. It’s also not really sometching anyone needs, but rather something that occurs when many people end up doing the same thing. 

 Why not just do what you want?

Why can’t you do what you want, but also like having a consensus?

Off the top of my head lingere in vantage, stemming ms in vantage, viagro at world wall, aparasian dog in mazama, the finger crack in the zelda boulders in index all have rules listed in their respective guidebooks.

I need more details as to how each “send” is invalidated by using some sort of “cheater beta. I don’t have much knowledge of those except for the Zelda boulders. I don’t even mind that you only provided routes from one region/group of developers. At least you tryin’   

Once again what does the consensus do for you? Why can't you just do what ever you want as long as you don't alter the climb?

I already mentioned what benefit having a consesus on grades may provide people. But you totally can do whatever you want, but as I mentioned before, having a consensus on route grades serves a pretty big purpose to most climbers. If you truly give zero f##k’s what other people think then why ask these questions in the first place. Climb the first 5 bolts of a 12 bolt climb and call it a send. Watch a video and say you sent it ff, I really don’t care, personally   However, the vast majority of climbers will not consider that valid. Which is what I thought we were discussing. 

Seems a bit mean spirited. I want people to be nice to each other. 

You literally started an entire thread trying to get me banned and then want to say “be nice to each other“ gtfoh 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote: But then the movie shows you that being dogmatic about ethics held people back.

How so? I feel like we watched different movies for sure. The movie I watched focused almost exclusively on the opposing ethics of Harding and Robbin and how it culminated in them forming a respect for each other, all while still having different ethical views. Not one part seemed to allude to the fact that progress would have happened faster had they “got along”…at least not from my perspective 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

This is what I am advocating for. If you say anything on mountain project about a route you didn't send in the best style you will get flamed. Do people even need to know what you think is personally good enough?

End of discussion….

saign charlesteinwrote:

End of discussion….

Or banned. One of the two

Daniel Chode Riderwrote:

Or banned. One of the two

Why can’t it be both?

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

You literally started an entire thread trying to get me banned and then want to say “be nice to each other“ gtfoh 

I was being nice. Imagine we are hooked on a drug called mp. As an addict I was trying to save us. If Artem can recognize he had a problem so can we! I was trying to save you, I apologize! You can still advocate for me too be banned, I don’t mind!!!

Did anyone see that Golden State Warriors game last night? 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

I was being nice. Imagine we are hooked on a drug called mp. As an addict I was trying to save us. If Artem can recognize he had a problem so can we! I was trying to save you, I apologize! You can still advocate for me too be banned, I don’t mind!!!

You’re weird 

M Montoya wrote:

Did anyone see that Golden State Warriors game last night? 

Looney locking down Luka.

Long live Ken