What in climbing are you a snob about?

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

I asked myself whether there should even be roads into the gunks, let alone parking lots or a walkable carriage road. People think cliff bar wrappers are litter, real trash is humanity.

Finally someone gets it. 

Not so much snobbism and maybe more like me being a judgmental ass, but if I see you climbing in the gym with TC Pro, probably toproping a 5.9, or belaying with LS Solution Comp on your feet, you can bet your ass I'm judging you. If that is any confort, I am judging even more harshly the person who sold them to you in the first place. In any case I will not be climbing with you. 

Pierre Proulxwrote:

Not so much snobbism and maybe more like me being a judgmental ass, but if I see you climbing in the gym with TC Pro, probably toproping a 5.9, or belaying with LS Solution Comp on your feet, you can bet your ass I'm judging you. If that is any confort, I am judging even more harshly the person who sold them to you in the first place. In any case I will not be climbing with you. 

What if the TCs are their comfortable beater shoes and they’re top roping their way back from an injury?

True story, my gf does that and she’s an absolute rope gun when healthy. 

I'm quite a snob when it comes to the definition of the word snob. This thread is beyond recovery destroyed by whiners. A whiner is not a snob. Can we retitle this as "What in climbing are you whining about?" Snobbery can easily be made fun of, but whining is just pure negativity. Boring!

Haha you know when a shoe maven shows up whining about someone else's Guccis the thread has run its course.

Ricky Harlinewrote:

There aren't many things I'm a snob about, but this definitely has to be one of them. Putting bolts into a rock is not a trivial thing to do-- it is permanently altering a public resource, and due to the rules of climbing it also means that it is unlikely to be altered by someone else. This means some thought should be put into how the bolts go in. 

Some routes are clearly not meant for a general audience and I definitely believe that bold and historic routes have a place in climbing and should not be retrobolted. Having a sparsely bolted 5.10 next to a bunch of 5.12s also makes a lot of sense as it's intended as a warmup. But shitty bolting of scruffy cliffs no one cares about with no fall zones existing for 30 feet up the 45 foot climb and all near major population centers that get mobbed every weekend by gumbies is simply moronic. 

And then people get all snobby about protecting heritage and the adventure of climbing and all kinds of bullshit. I'm going to be snobby about that snobbery. The adventure of climbing exists in loads of places. Allowing people to climb without unnecessary risk is actually more likely to lead to more people growing as climbers and taking lead falls and progressing on towards harder, scarier, bolder things. In places with shitty bolting a lot of climbers have their progression significantly stunted because they are rightfully concerned about leading routes with god awful bolting and they end up spending much of their time top roping despite having climbed for years and being competent leaders. No one talks about it but it is a clearly observable phenomenon across many parts of the Western US where crusty traddies work hard to ensure that climbing is as miserable an experience for as many people as possible. 

Apparently the idea that different styles and aspects of climbing can coexist and even strengthen one another is a totally foreign concept to the people who think that bolts equal bad. There are lot of climbers that I like and respect who hold that attitude, but seriously man, fuck that attitude. It needs to die. 

This attitude is alive and well in the Midwest too. We do have a truly world class climbing area that is completely bolt-free and I believe that is a special thing and should be preserved because it was formative for my early climbing experience and can be for many other budding climbers. However we also have a number of chossy satellite crags that are catered more to sport climbing and see hordes of people from the major population centers in the area every single weekend. People either are afraid to push themselves because of the sparse bolting OR come out there way too bold and make mistakes that are potentially super dangerous. I am a firm believer that if a climb is going to be entirely protected by bolts, then it should be safe for the whole climb. Any trad or mixed climb can be inherently more dangerous because it just takes a bit more thought to safely protect it. But sport climbing isn't about that. 

Climbing 5.13 sport in the Midwest still REALLY means something because so many of the sport climbs are so poorly bolted. Theres less than 10 hard sport climbs within a days drive of where I currently live that I think I could try without feeling like I might break my legs. 

BUT this might be part of why I'm a crusty trad snob 

Patrikwrote:

I'm quite a snob when it comes to the definition of the word snob. This thread is beyond recovery destroyed by whiners. A whiner is not a snob. Can we retitle this as "What in climbing are you whining about?" Snobbery can easily be made fun of, but whining is just pure negativity. Boring!

I personally like the whining because a lot of the posts are things people say seriously and this thread exposes them for what they are: dumb complaints that you can safely ignore.

Peter Ywrote:

This. Rope commands are great but my Rocky Talkies have given me so much more flexibility

That reminds me: I'm a total snob about walkie talkies, as well as shouted conversations as others have mentioned. Rope tugs + minimal commands for me till I die from miscommunication.

Nick Budkawrote:

Bolts. Ask yourself before bolting- is this unspoiled section of cliff really worth desecrating with holes and chains to climb on? Sometimes it is, especially if there is no natural protection and it is aesthetic with good movement. But if it is not adding anything to the crag, leave the drill at home. Bad sport routes should not exist, and in my opinion are akin to litter or graffiti. 

Also, poorly bolted good routes. If someone has to replace those bolts after a few years, you are a shitty developer. If you bolt something and there arent enough/too many bolts, why did you bother? Your bolt job should be good, the hardware should last longer than you do, and it should add something to the cliff! if its worth bolting, its worth bolting well. The reason someone doesn’t climb a bolted route shouldn’t be making the clips. 

I like to climb with a GriGri, PAS, cordelette, and walkie-talkies on multis - I feel like I'm the very incarnation of MP hate.

Ted Ravenwrote:

What if the TCs are their comfortable beater shoes and they’re top roping their way back from an injury?

True story, my gf does that and she’s an absolute rope gun when healthy. 

valid point, but based on my experience i would say this is more the exception than the norm. 

Pierre Proulxwrote:

Not so much snobbism and maybe more like me being a judgmental ass, but if I see you climbing in the gym with TC Pro, probably toproping a 5.9, or belaying with LS Solution Comp on your feet, you can bet your ass I'm judging you. If that is any confort, I am judging even more harshly the person who sold them to you in the first place. In any case I will not be climbing with you. 

Are you really that petty or just trolling?

Nathan Sullivanwrote:

I like to climb with a GriGri, PAS, cordelette, and walkie-talkies on multis - I feel like I'm the very incarnation of MP hate.

Throw a GoPro on your helmet and watch the torches be lit.

Big Redwrote:

Throw a GoPro on your helmet and watch the torches be lit.

Gym belay card racked on the harness and I start sharpening the tines of my pitchfork.

Big Redwrote:

That reminds me: I'm a total snob about walkie talkies, as well as shouted conversations as others have mentioned. Rope tugs + minimal commands for me till I die from miscommunication.

"until I die from miscommunication"   

for some reason every time I climb multi with my girlfirend (who is already scared of heights) we get caught in some unpredicted windstorm of magnificent proportions. I should probably get some rockies. 

I'm still a snob about trad areas with tat for raps. Kills people, looks way worse than a couple of bolts.

Sure not every climb needs rap stations, but if an area has 20 climbs that all top out in the same general area.... maybe add one dedicated rap line. 

Nathan Sullivanwrote:

I like to climb with a GriGri, PAS, cordelette, and walkie-talkies on multis - I feel like I'm the very incarnation of MP hate.

Yeah but how is your chalkbag attached?

I don't usually have a chalkbag, oddly. I do have a belay tag from the gym on my only harness though! Heh heh heh.

Brad Boerswrote:

Multi-pitch commands should be limited to:

"[Partner's name here] Off Belay!"

"[Other partner's name here] Belay is off!

"That's me"

"[Partner's name here] Belay is on, climb when ready"

(Optional) "Climbing"

Multi-pitch commands should not be:

"Ok, [Partner's name] I am in direct at the anchor"

"Ok cool, do you want me to take you off belay?"

"ummmmmm yeah! you can take me O F F - B E L A Y"

"Ok [Partner's name] you are off belay!"

"Thank you!"

"..."

"Am I on Belay?"

"is that you?"

"That's me, am I on Belay?"

"Hold on one second"

"..."

"Can I climb?"

[Wind picks up]

"Ok you are on belay!"

"What?!"

"OOOONNNNN BEEEELAAYYYY"

"Climbing!"

"What?"

[Silence]

"Up rope!"

"Belay is on!"

etc, etc.

Conversation may or may not be based on actual interactions I've witnessed in multi-pitch areas.

I actually prefer to use a series of loud grunts for commands

Ahhggh! = Give slack

Grraaah! = Off belay

Rwoaw! = Climbing

WroOo! = Belay is off

OoOock! = On belay, you can climb now

Etc.

"I said SLACK GODDAMNIT!"