New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #19

Ward, Todd, all… please allow me to speak for Jan. Those BP’s look fabulous! Sitting in the snow, amongst the Pines. What a way to spend the day. The essence of climbing.
We were raised at Stoney Point and one of the tenants we live by (I learned this in college!) is “show no mercy, have no mercy” …. This translates to - “your V??? Can’t possibly be V???…till I say so” It’s the way it is with our little Stoney tribe.
This little deal is about 4 years old- Cold Sushi V10. All the boys and girls had doubts about the grade….. “sure that Dimitry is strong, but calling that V10, skipping V8,9, is just plain wrong…”

So this is SP V10… I don’t think it been repeated, except by Dimitry.
 

I obviously didn’t learn about cut in paste videos in college…, 

But they showed up!

My best day of college was the first day. California Geography. Professor: Mark Powell

He had a slide show of things in California, a few were photos taken on half-dome. One was of Mark inching himself across “Thank God Ledge”.

That got my attention and after class I went up to Mark and asked “how does one get into that?”

Happy climbing all!  

Guy Keeseewrote:

So this is SP V10… I don’t think it been repeated, except by Dimitry.
 

FYI that’s a video of Dan Vakili, sounds like Demetrius is filming.

Sam Cieplywrote:

FYI that’s a video of Dan Vakili, sounds like Demetrius is filming.

I always thought his real name is Dimitri Vakili- but we call him Dan to avoid confusion with the real Dimitri - AKA Da Meat… but what do I know?
The reason I posted it was to show a V10…Stoney Style- something without any real holds- the toe hangs!  I can’t hang off those with my hands! 

Thanks Sam!

Edit to add- this post limit really really really blows: Yes I now remember- Daniel- I just think people like him are “supermen” …. They climb on stuff I can’t imagine. To me V3 is = 5.12… sometimes I can manage that. I wrote a whole thing about money challenges but MP swallowed it up. See you all later 

Guy Keeseewrote:

I always thought his real name is Dimitri Vakili- but we call him Dan to avoid confusion with the real Dimitri - AKA Da Meat… but what do I know?
The reason I posted it was to show a V10…Stoney Style- something without any real holds- the toe hangs!  I can’t hang off those with my hands! 

Thanks Sam!

Haha no his name is Daniel as far as I know but he does look like a Dimitri. Just wanted to make sure he gets the credit he deserves for being a master boulderer! 

Todd Berlier wrote:

Grades are a polarizing topic to say the least. One thing I have always tried to do and I believe if all of us did this it would make our little world a better place would be to, when downgrading, say, "for me that felt like 5.x or Vx." Statements presented as fact when it is an opinion is wrong: i.e. "there is no way that's V8, V5 at the hardest." I also think that one's opinion on grades has way more weight if one is also willing to upgrade when it feels harder than the grade to them--let's me know that your position on grades is objective and isn't merely "dick jousting."

in regard to Jan's statements, I would have blown them off had he not doubled down when Nick called him out--but that's an assumption on my part since he refrained from answering Nick or Ward afterward. Maybe he's been in Arizona now, flashing Ward's V3/8 and earning a $1000!

Totally.
One's opinion, up or down, would also carry a lot of credibility if one *has* onsighted or at least flashed said problem/climb.
It would be fantastic if this turns into put your money where you mouth is scenario. The East Coasters might just have to make a pilgrimage to SP and eat humble pie if Jan journeys to AZ!
All in good sportsmanship and friendly competition that is, and not in spite!

Guy, always the perfect mediator and soother of hurt feelings.  Thank you.  

This conversation has taken me to a different place.  I've really tried (REALLY tried) to use the word 'old' so I can get used to it, start to address myself that way, and accept my age.  Except there is not one molecule in my body that feels old.  Or even older.  I don't feel senior, aged, masters, aging (or decrepit).  Yet we use those words so liberally... even 'over 50' seems to imply that we are all past shelf life.  Is there anyone here past their shelf life?  

On the positive side... anything an 'old person' does here is considered exciting.  A half-hearted day of climbing is great 'for your age'.  And if you don't send a route, well... that's ok... you're old, and you TRIED.  We are triers.  

I'm glad to have a built-in excuse for this humbling sport in which I can never feel good enough.  But man... the bar is now so low it's easy to dazzle 'em by just getting out of the lawn chair.  

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I guess I'd be ok with judging performance on certain limitations... having had a back injury, or a diabetic day, or having minimal past athletic experience, bad knees.  Any of those things can factor into ability to perform.  But I hate to call it a day because of age.  Maybe that day will come where it's entirely appropriate.  Just for now, I've tried to wear the label 'old', and it's not setting well.  Now I'm going to try to let it go. 

As to grades... I know NOTHING of what you all experience, most particularly bouldering.  I think you all look pretty amazing.  But Tony and I had this discussion last night when I told him a particular route was likely a 12+.  He was incredulous... "What, do you just get to climb a rock and decide the grade?"  Well, yea, sort of.  I'm surprised how consistent and reliable grades are here in Joshua Tree, with no specific criteria to base it on.  Even I have a sense when a route is a 9 or a 10.  If a route is labeled 10a, it's likely to actually be a 10a (by Joshua Tree standards).  Pretty interesting that the entire community sort of agrees on route difficulty.  

I've been working on a route that is incredibly difficult for me and it's easy to get frustrated ("Why can't I do this?").  I looked it up on MP last night, because it is rated a 10b.  It just seemed a little harder to me... sure enough most of the comments were '10b/c'.  This morning, waking up thinking about this route and wondering if I'm up for it... if I don't send it, I'm not using age as an excuse.  Lack of native ability, lack of miles on the rock, lack of appropriate strength to do the job... just not age.  I don't believe it's the right excuse.

All that aside... we have been talking about training on this thread, and Bob said it again yesterday... "The best training for this route is to climb this route."   I gotta believe that at some point my body will comply and go with the program.  

Thank you again, Guy. 

Isa and I put up a 10+ on her 50th birthday

 It  has been called 12a by some folks who have actually climbed it.   A few weeks after we put the thing up a friend of mine was falling all over it and while hanging on the bolt downgraded it to 10a...

Totally climbing related…    I don’t know where else to ask this.  I’m building two 2x8 raised garden beds for vegetables.  They fit best sitting on my patio but I’ve never grown vegetables over concrete—also they would not have wind protection.  I could also set them against our fence where they would get morning shade and partial wind block… but hard to get water there.  Kinda stuck with this decision… anyone? 

I'm putting this here for inspiration. After his hands got arthritis so bad he couldn't climb any more Royal Robbins took up hardcore whitewater kayaking exploration as a second act. My friend Reg Lake, along with, Royal, Yvon Chouinard and Doug Tompkins made some of the first descents of the major watersheds of the Sierra Nevada together, combining their whitewater skills, climbing skills and general badassery. Here's a photo of Royal carrying his kayak over Mt. Whitney to run a previously unkayaked Kern. He was 46 or 47 at the time, so not quite old enough for this forum, but I feel like we would have let him in. (photo credit Reg Lake)

Well I weighed 154.0  on the scale this morning, a post 40 record, no wonder I sent.  I took the redeye Saturday night and got zero sleep as expected, then went to bed at 6 last night and slept until 6:30, I was too out of it to do much work so i went to the gym and bouldered and am now doing a fingerboard workout.   I still suck at one arm hangs despite the weight loss.   

Lori Milaswrote:

Totally climbing related…    I don’t know where else to ask this.  I’m building two 2x8 raised garden beds for vegetables.  They fit best sitting on my patio but I’ve never grown vegetables over concrete—also they would not have wind protection.  I could also set them against our fence where they would get morning shade and partial wind block… but hard to get water there.  Kinda stuck with this decision… anyone? 

Veggies need morning sun. 

Ward Smithwrote:

Well I weighed 154.0  on the scale this morning, a post 40 record, no wonder I sent.  I took the redeye Saturday night and got zero sleep as expected, then went to bed at 6 last night and slept until 6:30, I was too out of it to do much work so i went to the gym and bouldered and am now doing a fingerboard workout.   I still suck at one arm hangs despite the weight loss.   

Someone will undoubtedly look your pictures and look at  your height and that of the of the boulder.  With their well calibrated eyes, honed by 50 years keyboard critique, they will conclude that you cannot possibly be 154 lbs.  unless, of course, the picture was taken at SP.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Isa and I put up a 10+ on her 50th birthday It  has been called 12a by some folks who have actually climbed it. 

That's just EastCoast softness creeping in.  Probably 5.9 out West.

Lori Milaswrote:

Totally climbing related…    I don’t know where else to ask this.  I’m building two 2x8 raised garden beds for vegetables.  They fit best sitting on my patio but I’ve never grown vegetables over concrete—also they would not have wind protection.  I could also set them against our fence where they would get morning shade and partial wind block… but hard to get water there.  Kinda stuck with this decision… anyone? 

Wind protection is a must have.  6 hours of sun is plenty out here and you will still probably need some 30 or 40% shade cloth.  Water?  Get a hose and a timer.

Russ Wallingwrote:

That's just EastCoast softness creeping in.  Probably 5.9 out West.

Right.  That's why I couldn't climb 5.10 until I went to Yosemite in the 70's and J tree in the early 80's .  We are super soft out here.  Go to Quincy Quarries and get on any "5.9" lol.

I think the kid who called it 12a might have been a bit soft. We felt pretty good about calling it 10+ ;)  The guy who fell , hung on the bolt and then downgraded it to 10a was just being a total wanker ;)  

csproulwrote:

Someone will undoubtedly look your pictures and look at  your height and that of the of the boulder.  With their well calibrated eyes, honed by 50 years keyboard critique, they will conclude that you cannot possibly be 154 lbs.  unless, of course, the picture was taken at SP.

OMG.  LMAO.  Good one.

The picture would have to be taken at Stoney & there would have to be two people to witness it. We don't count first ascends in bouldering. Anybody could get lucky once. When you do it the second time we shut up. There are two parts to Stoney, one tuff & mean, the other is the only thing that matters is having fun.

BUT, when you are in trouble we will do our best to help. We may make fun of you and torment you, at the same time show you everything we know about what we do. We will make you a better climber! 

On one of my worst days in life, seasick like I had never known, Jan, who is smaller than me carried me to the showers got me cleaned up & took damn good care of me.

I am pretty sure by my writing you all know I never went to college. I have much respect for people that did go to & finish college.

Mark Frumkinwrote:

The picture would have to be taken at Stoney & there would have to be two people to witness it. We don't count first ascends in bouldering. Anybody could get lucky once. When you do it the second time we shut up. There are two parts to Stoney, one tuff & mean, the other is the only thing that matters is having fun.

BUT, when you are in trouble we will do our best to help. We may make fun of you and torment you, at the same time show you everything we know about what we do. We will make you a better climber! 

On one of my worst days in life, seasick like I had never known, Jan, who is smaller than me carried me to the showers got me cleaned up & took damn good care of me.

I am pretty sure by my writing you all know I never went to college. I have much respect for people that did go to & finish college.

Mark... what a great post.  And also,, no, I would never suspect by your writing that you did not go to college.  You write beautifully.  Besides... who cares?

As you may know I've been digging ever since I first came  to Joshua Tree for stories, and to get to know climbers who were here before.  Now we're also getting to know East Coast climbers, and those in-between... different vibe, different climbing ethic (sometimes) but climbers still.  And apparently very good ones!  

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But you said when you are in trouble you (all) will do your best to help.  I have really felt that, also.  And this morning, I'm in a bad way.  Just trying to keep my poker face.  I've been at my desk at the crack of dawn since January, watching the stock market and my life savings freefall.  I can't watch any more.  The words "World War 3" have been spoken so many times this month that it's impossible not to cringe.  This morning Biden will be announcing a Russian oil ban... and oil prices are soaring before he even makes that announcement.  It's impossible to play this hand... when doing 'retirement planning' I wasn't prepared to deal with COVID and a Ukranian invasion, along with every other crazy thing that has happened in the last few years.  This hasn't been my stress-free 'move to the desert and live in a yurt' retirement.  I'm REALLY stressing.  

And then to see women and children fleeing the Ukraine, leaving their men behind to fight... a six year old little boy with a note pinned to his jacket who walked to the border.  This morning I'm just tapping out... can't handle any more.

I suspect I'm not the only one... and for some reason it gives me great heart to know that Jan carried you bitd when you needed carrying.  

Today I'm going to build my other planter box, carry it out to the area where there is wind shelter (per Russ' instruction), figure out the shade cloth... and decide on what desert-hearty plants to get.  That's how I'm solving the Ukranian crisis today.