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Grading Routes
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How do people feel about grading routes based on the hardest move vs more of an average/compromised grade? Specifically when one move is significantly harder than the rest. |
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I'd rather discover that the 10c I'm getting on is a one-move wonder of mostly 5.6 and a 10c crux than discover the 5.6 I'm getting on has a 10c crux. I've heard a number of times that the +/- system you sometimes see indicates how committing and sustained a route is, but I don't know for certain that's the case, and it's not the standard today, anyway. |
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One move wonders are 1 star. Change. My. Mind. |
K Lwrote: A few of the newly developed local crags use the LIGMA rating system which does a pretty good job of taking into account these discrepancies. |
K Lwrote: I think routes should be graded based on their difficulty |
Crimpin Ain't Easy wrote: I agree 100% (I imagine most would) although this doesn’t really add to the commentary about grading. |
Lane Mathiswrote: Depends on where that one move is. If a 5.7 starts with a 5.10 move down low, it's probably listed as a 5.7, with a lot of stars. |
Crag MonsterDouchewrote: This is definitely the best rating system that solves all of these issues and should be adopted everywhere. I've seen multiple studies that show that the LIGMA system reduces the number of injuries/fatalities per route |
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I have no opinion on how the grades are done. I’ve read an article that broke it down pretty well awhile back. For example, a 5.13a shouldnt have any moves harder than V7. So a shorter 5.13a would typically have a V7 crux whereas a longer 5.13a would typically have an easier crux it (theoretically) remains just as difficult. I don’t really care for one over the other, but what I have noticed is that many areas can grade differently. The RRG is the one that comes to mind due to their “pump factor” grading scale. I know many people who have climbed 5.14 before ever bouldering V8 just because their endurance was so good they could do a boulder problem at their limit with just as much ease/difficulty no matter where they were on the route… |
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Can someone explain LIGMA ratings? |
Matt Schilowitzwrote: Rip |
Matt Schilowitzwrote: I'll let Crag MonsterDouche do the honors. It's a tricky one to explain |
I think JOE will provide the best explanation.....
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I haven't been on Good Evans (.10D) for maybe 20 years, but I remember P1 being almost nothing but .10D moves. Still a .10D route. I have bolted routes in an area where the climbing is basically roped bouldering and often there is one crux move that's a number at least above the rest of the route. Like everything else in this sport, it boils down to collective opinion based on weighing the factors |
Robert Swrote: The +/- doesn't represent the sustained nature or commitment as much as the difficulty in grading a route. Indian Creek uses the +/- system mostly to help adjust a little bit for hand size. My 11D in Indian Creek often feels like a bigger handed person's 11C and my 12C feels like someone's 12D. In the case of Yosemite and some other areas, the infamous 9+ represented everything harder than 5.9 until the grades caught up. Still the standard system in some crags in the U.S. |
Matt Schilowitzwrote: LIGMA nuts lmao |
Crag MonsterDouchewrote: Haha you got me! Thanks for the laugh. |
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Matt Schilowitz you're a good sport! |
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What I've observed and heard, and what seems most logical to me, is with YDS, the grade is typically prescribed according to the higher of the most difficult move or overall difficulty. For example, a route of 5.8 and 5.9 climbing with a short 10c crux will typically be graded 10c (with lots of stars and ticks, to be sure). But take that same 10c section and stack it on top of itself for 100 feet of sustained "10c" climbing with no rests, and almost certainly that route will be graded somewhere between 11a and 11c. Is it right? Some questions are better left un-asked. But it's logical in that everyone will agree 10 feet of 10c climbing is much easier than 100 feet of 10c climbing. |
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This question typically spawns an infinite amount of reasonable yet mutually incompatible answers. Because there is no single accepted answer. Is an 8 move V4 problem followed by 40 feet of 5.9 really a 12a? Maybe, but are you really a 12a climber because you did a 4 move v4? (Looking at you, Jack's Canyon) If climbing didn't have ratings, what % of climbers would have never gotten into (or stayed into) climbing if there were no grades to chase? |
bryanswrote: Yes. It would be the same as 90 ft of 5.9 (or any lesser grade) to a V4 crux, no?
This is an entirely different discussion lol |
