BLM TO CHARGE $20 TO ACCESS CALICO BASIN; WILL BUILD TOLL BOOTH

I wouldn’t guess the ratio to be nearly that high. I would suppose more like a vehicle ratio between 1:7 - 1:20 at a minimum. 

Marc801 Cwrote:

MP is but a tiny fraction of the user base of Instagram. Probably not the case in Calico, but look at the loop road. For every one climber vehicle (local and tourist) there are what, 200, 300, 500 non-climbing tourist cars? 

MP just doesn't have the impact people think it does.

Mountain Project definitely has a huge impact on the visibility of routes and crags that would otherwise only be in guidebooks and/or not known by the general climbing public at all.  If Mountain Project all of a sudden vanished, many would either have to go buy a guidebook for a respective area (which are almost never up to date), or they would have to go back to hand drawn topos like the olden days.

Marc801 C,  I claim no knowledge of actual facts or statistics and I know almost nothing about the purpose and function of Instagram. I agree with your point though. Climbers are only a fraction of the visitors. The internet spreads out in all directions. 

Alex Fletcherwrote:

I wouldn’t guess the ratio to be nearly that high. I would suppose more like a vehicle ratio between 1:7 - 1:20 at a minimum. 

Perhaps. Sometimes it sure seems like 1:500 though!

d kwrote:

Mountain Project definitely has a huge impact on the visibility of routes and crags that would otherwise only be in guidebooks and/or not known by the general climbing public at all.  If Mountain Project all of a sudden vanished, many would either have to go buy a guidebook for a respective area (which are almost never up to date), or they would have to go back to hand drawn topos like the olden days.

Sure, but we're talking about Red Rock, not some backcountry choss pile. Yes, yes, I know there are RR crags that are only on MP at the moment, but MP sure isn't the major driver of climbing visits to RR.

A huge problem for Calico Basin has been the reservation system on the loop.  When people show up without a reservation, Calico Basin becomes their next objective because it is close.  I have seen traffic on the basin side increase 10-fold since the reservation system went into effect.  A huge population of this has not been climbers either.  I see a ton of weddings, hikers, picnic people, etc.  Calico has the boardwalk for photographers and the shelter houses with grills for families.  The meadows in trampled daily.  These amenities make it a convenient place for many and the community is getting tired of people parking in front of their homes, in their driveways and in no parking areas.  The city should have limited housing growth in this area years ago, now the BLM hand is being forced because people aren't being respectful of the community and natural resources.  I expect this problem to increase as housing is develop on the west side of town.

Is there an update on possible entry fee or reservation system for Calico? Would a national parks pass or red rock pass be accepted?

I heard calico is indefinitely closed, possibly a utility thing.

M Mwrote:

I heard calico is indefinitely closed, possibly a utility thing.

Maybe still closed because of this investigation?

https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/las-vegas-police-investigate-apparent-murder-suicide-in-calico-basin/article_edbf58da-815a-11ec-861b-b7f0706aabc5.html

M Mwrote:

I heard calico is indefinitely closed, possibly a utility thing.

It was closed the other day due to the murder suicide, but it has been open since Sunday.  Are you referring to today?

The Access Fund have never been advocates for climbers. They've always tried to play nice with everyone ensuring that all climbers lose any leverage they ever had. Absolute cucks.

Ashortwrote:

Ban motorized vehicles, build very large parking garage at the highway and make people walk or bike in, visitation will drop and the land will be conserved.

LOL! As if the boomers who paved everything would ever entertain this. 

Trad Manwrote:

LOL! As if the boomers who paved everything would ever entertain this. 

This is not very inclusive.   Times change and so do opinions.  

Trad Manwrote:

The Access Fund have never been advocates for climbers. They've always tried to play nice with everyone ensuring that all climbers lose any leverage they ever had. Absolute cucks.

#DefundAccessFund

I was down at Calico Basin yesterday and it was an absolute circus.  Multiple weddings, cars down both sides of the street from beginning to end in no parking zones, homes blocked, people trampling the desert.  I saw at least one ranger down there doing crowd control.  The loop was out of permits again and this has become the red rocks overflow area.  If they shut this thing down completely, I couldn't even be mad.  The problem is there needs to be more developed places for people to go so they don't congregate all at the same place.

Keith Boonewrote:

I was down at Calico Basin yesterday and it was an absolute circus.  Multiple weddings, cars down both sides of the street from beginning to end in no parking zones, homes blocked, people trampling the desert.  I saw at least one ranger down there doing crowd control.  The loop was out of permits again and this has become the red rocks overflow area.  If they shut this thing down completely, I couldn't even be mad.  The problem is there needs to be more developed places for people to go so they don't congregate all at the same place.

I was there yesterday as well. Left Kraft parking around 4:30pm and there was a ranger in the parking lot... doing nothing (as far as I could tell) about all the rampant disregard for trampling off trails, dogs off leash, litter/graffiti, parking anywhere and everywhere, etc. Given the complete lack of signage and agnostic attitude of BLM officials/rangers to do any educating of the masses, it's not at all surprising to see the place getting "loved to death." So, on the one hand, I think it should be locked down to prevent its destruction, but then I remember that the BLM created this problem with the Loop road reservation system.

It bears repeating that the recent, explosive overuse of this area, in the past couple years, is a direct result of the reservations system for the Loop road. The apparent disregard for the overflow effect on Calico Basin, after implementing a Loop road restriction system, has resulted in the BLM's solution of gate and restrict Calico Basin now too. 

#BackwardsLazyManagement

Every single outdoor recreation spot in the whole country is out of control with people right now, its been that way since covid. Public land and especially trailheads are getting thrashed right now by people with no outdoors experience and no plan b. Hopefully we can start convincing them to go back indoors over time, maybe we just need the heavy hitters like Honnold, Caldwell and Chin to start making some cool gym climbing and bowling movies.

BLM will allow the Calico situation to continue to deteriorate until the community begs to have toll booths installed. Once the access to Calico has been gated off, you'll need to apply for a reservation online with a credit card, using the website operated by defense and surveillance contractor, Booz Allen Hamilton. Walt refers to inclusivity, but a certain population will be disenfranchised as free, unfettered access becomes a thing of the past. What used to be around-the-clock access will come to an end and the hikers, climbers and boulders will be chased out in broad daylight in the evening while the residents of Calico Basin and their guest-listed friends (ie., Southern Nevada Climber's Coalition board members) will be free to roam the landscape as they please, unhindered by burdensome regulations.

The decision seems to have been put off until march, due to the overwhelming amount of feedback they received.  I reckon John is right, however, in that they will let the place deteriorate until we "beg" them to gate the place.  It certainly is becoming a mess, which is horrible to see.  Self-policing certainly doesn't work.  At least not amongst climbers.  The tradition of climbing mentorship is long gone.  Gym-crag without any instruction on how to behave is the way it goes these days.

I haven't been to Kraft/calico for a long time but I remember thinking the parking for a desert location was strangely suburban, similar to watching St George explode into the foothills and climbing areas. Shit was gonna hit the fan all along. National parks are being forced to turn to reservation systems for the cool spots, cool spots that have been heavily promoted by social media postings.