BLM TO CHARGE $20 TO ACCESS CALICO BASIN; WILL BUILD TOLL BOOTH

Ban motorized vehicles, build very large parking garage at the highway and make people walk or bike in, visitation will drop and the land will be conserved.

Ashortwrote:

Ban motorized vehicles, build very large parking garage at the highway and make people walk or bike in, visitation will drop and the land will be conserved.

I would be on board with this if it applied to the residents and their friends as well. Otherwise, imagine hiking in the additional mile while the friends of Alex Honnald (SNCC board members?) drive by leaving you in the dust.

Connor Dobsonwrote:

Why is night climbing on thin ice environmentally? Not trolling, I am genuinely  curious.

Lots of wildlife moves around only at night and climbing with lights noise etc is very disruptive to that. It also can freak out park-adjacent residents who don’t know what’s going on. I wouldn’t be surprised to see it banned in potentially sensitive areas like Kraft Rocks and Gateway Canyon. It’s super easy to detect and monitor so I doubt it will be tolerated much longer.  

Peter Bealwrote:

It also can freak out park-adjacent residents who don’t know what’s going on. I wouldn’t be surprised to see it banned in potentially sensitive areas like Kraft Rocks and Gateway Canyon. It’s super easy to detect and monitor so I doubt it will be tolerated much longer.  

Are you joking? Are you the type of person that moves to an area and complains when the public tries to enjoy the public lands adjacent to your house? I hope not - such hypocrisy. 

Let me tell you, certain residents of Calico, and their friends, will be enjoying the exclusive gated community, bouldering on the public lands well into the night as they please, while the dirtbag common folk stare enviously from behind the locked gate. Your post sounds extremely elitist.

John Hegyeswrote:

Are you joking? Are you the type of person that moves to an area and complains when the public tries to enjoy the public lands adjacent to your house? I hope not - such hypocrisy. 

Let me tell you, certain residents of Calico, and their friends, will be enjoying the exclusive gated community, bouldering on the public lands well into the night as they please, while the dirtbag common folk stare enviously from behind the locked gate. Your post sounds extremely elitist.

He’s explaining, not advocating. 

John Hegyeswrote:

Are you joking? Are you the type of person that moves to an area and complains when the public tries to enjoy the public lands adjacent to your house? I hope not - such hypocrisy. 

Let me tell you, certain residents of Calico, and their friends, will be enjoying the exclusive gated community, bouldering on the public lands well into the night as they please, while the dirtbag common folk stare enviously from behind the locked gate. Your post sounds extremely elitist.

Actually yours does more than his, all he stated was facts.

John Hegyeswrote:

Are you joking? Are you the type of person that moves to an area and complains when the public tries to enjoy the public lands adjacent to your house? I hope not - such hypocrisy. 

Let me tell you, certain residents of Calico, and their friends, will be enjoying the exclusive gated community, bouldering on the public lands well into the night as they please, while the dirtbag common folk stare enviously from behind the locked gate. Your post sounds extremely elitist.

I am not joking. Land management agencies are definitely answerable to the concerns of adjacent property owners. In the case of the parking/driving cluster at the Kraft/Calico trailheads, I am sure residents' complaints were a significant cause for setting up a reservation system.

I have no idea why you would speculate on what type of person I am but if it helps, I do live adjacent to a trailhead and if over the course of a couple of years things went from relatively low key behavior and visitation numbers to suddenly 100s of sprinter vans, cars speeding through the local neighborhood, loose dogs, loud music, and the usual climber BS all day long, yeah I would complain to the managing agency. And so would anyone else.

Climbers need to get their act together and fast. This is the future if our behavior doesn't change. The fact is that local agencies and directors have wide discretion on restrictions and regulations to safeguard the resource and if something like the BLM plan even gets to the point of discussion, it's going to happen.

LINK:

Article in the Las Vegas Review Journal: ’Gates to keep people out’: Calico Basin users criticize federal plan

If you don't want to be locked off your public lands in Calico Basin, speak up before it's too late. The BLM is accepting comments through December 8. I would also suggest reaching out to Clark County Commissioner Justin Jones and, more importantly, Ross Miller, who actually represents Calico Basin. The county is considering relinquishing control of the roads in Calico Basin to the BLM, thus allowing a toll booth to be installed with strict operating hours, and a fee, reservation and quota system to be implemented.

Well, I witnessed something very interesting tonight.

A resident or quite possibly a "guest" was walking through the Kraft area with their horse and an unleashed dog, running around, leaving its mark wherever it pleased.

Seems quite two-faced to be complaining about messy public land users by the private owners and guests, only to have them turn around and perform the same behavior.

Hmmm.  There has been a fee to climb at the Gunks for years.  Day pass is now $20.  Annual pass $95.  Proceeds used to maintain area.  Red Rock will survive, perhaps improve in some ways

Idaho Bobwrote:

Hmmm.  There has been a fee to climb at the Gunks for years.  Day pass is now $20.  Annual pass $95.  Proceeds used to maintain area.  Red Rock will survive, perhaps improve in some ways

Gunks are private property. Red Rocks is public property.

Idaho Bobwrote:

Hmmm.  There has been a fee to climb at the Gunks for years.  Day pass is now $20.  Annual pass $95.  Proceeds used to maintain area.  Red Rock will survive, perhaps improve in some ways

The fee BLM is proposing for Calico Basin is not even the worst part of their proposal. If there were self-service kiosks in the parking lots, where you can submit payment, that would be acceptable to me if the money had a demonstrable improvement on the surrounding terrain (ie., bathrooms built at the Kraft parking area). However, the BLM proposal also includes a large, intrusive development at the intersection of Calico Basin Road at the highway, with toll booths constructed, much like the entrance to the Red Rock Loop Road. What was once county roads, where access was free for all people to travel as they wished, at any time of day or night, will be now taken over by the federal government with strict operating hours and an online reservation system and quota enforced. This screws over anyone without access to the internet. Access to Calico Basin will be denied after 5pm for much of the year. During the summer, you'll have to vacate the area while the sun is still up at 8pm. This is all not much of a concern perhaps to out-of-towners such as yourself, but we Las Vegas locals do in fact enjoy the outdoors during the summer but we generally have to wait for the cooler times of the evening and morning to get out. Actually, hiking back to the trailhead after the sun goes down is a survival strategy when the temperatures go up.

Red Rock will survive as you say, but building a gated community where the local residents of Calico Basin and commercial users (ie., permitted guide services) are granted guest-list privileges while all other citizens are locked out is not the answer. This proposal clearly benefits a select few and the rest of us will be left holding the bag. Your East Coast mentality of "lock it up and charge for it" is exclusionary and if your solution is to create a de facto private reserve on public lands then I am in complete disagreement.

John Hegyeswrote:

The fee BLM is proposing for Calico Basin is not even the worst part of their proposal. If there were self-service kiosks in the parking lots, where you can submit payment, that would be acceptable to me if the money had a demonstrable improvement on the surrounding terrain (ie., bathrooms built at the Kraft parking area). However, the BLM proposal also includes a large, intrusive development at the intersection of Calico Basin Road at the highway, with toll booths constructed, much like the entrance to the Red Rock Loop Road. What was once county roads, where access was free for all people to travel as they wished, at any time of day or night, will be now taken over by the federal government with strict operating hours and an online reservation system and quota enforced. This screws over anyone without access to the internet. Access to Calico Basin will be denied after 5pm for much of the year. During the summer, you'll have to vacate the area while the sun is still up at 8pm. This is all not much of a concern perhaps to out-of-towners such as yourself, but we Las Vegas locals do in fact enjoy the outdoors during the summer but we generally have to wait for the cooler times of the evening and morning to get out. Actually, hiking back to the trailhead after the sun goes down is a survival strategy when the temperatures go up.

Red Rock will survive as you say, but building a gated community where the local residents of Calico Basin and commercial users (ie., permitted guide services) are granted guest-list privileges while all other citizens are locked out is not the answer. This proposal clearly benefits a select few and the rest of us will be left holding the bag. Your East Coast mentality of "lock it up and charge for it" is exclusionary and if your solution is to create a de facto private reserve on public lands then I am in complete disagreement.

The underlying issue is that a great deal of public land all over the West is under pressure do to over use.  Land managers have the responsibility to find ways to mitigate the resulting damage.  The current proposal may certainly be flawed and local users best know those flaws.  Has the Access Fund become involved?  Is Save Red Rock involved?  What is the position of Clark County to gating Calico Basin road?  Has local media become involved?  There are many levers to pull when proposed regulations are unreasonable.  

BTW, I am in favor of user fees and that, I submit is not an East Coast mentality.  

Idaho Bobwrote:

 Has the Access Fund become involved?  Is Save Red Rock involved?  What is the position of Clark County to gating Calico Basin road?  Has local media become involved?

1) Yes. 2) Folks have reached out, but they have yet to release a public statement. 3) In favor. 4) Yes, literally scroll 8 posts up…

Bob, do us the favor of reading the thread where these things have already been discussed. It’s a really polite thing to do. Especially before you jump into a lengthy conversation with a poor comparison to a private preserve and some rehashed ideas about the public process… 

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan/2021/12/14/michigans-pictured-rocks-to-begin-charging-1st-entrance-fee-in-march/

It's not just the "west" that's overused!

The sad part is that these fees are sold as what's good for the land and then more fees like times entry are added and pretty soon it takes more employees to run these lands which means greater cost AND users pay more and more making them inaccessible  to some.

It's  a vicious  cycle and I dont know how it gets fixed.

Leslie Hwrote:

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan/2021/12/14/michigans-pictured-rocks-to-begin-charging-1st-entrance-fee-in-march/

It's not just the "west" that's overused!

The sad part is that these fees are sold as what's good for the land and then more fees like times entry are added and pretty soon it takes more employees to run these lands which means greater cost AND users pay more and more making them inaccessible  to some.

It's  a vicious  cycle and I dont know how it gets fixed.

Perhaps how it gets fixed is all of our wonderful influencers, and/or amateur outdoor athletes cease geotagging everywhere they go and stop spraying on social media about how "sick" these places are. Maybe just enjoy the outdoors without having to tell everyone about it? 

d kwrote:

Perhaps how it gets fixed is all of our wonderful influencers, and/or amateur outdoor athletes cease geotagging everywhere they go and stop spraying on social media about how "sick" these places are. Maybe just enjoy the outdoors without having to tell everyone about it? 

it's def the instagram that caused people to notice the roadside area, 30 minutes outside on of the largest tourist areas in the US. If only those influencers didn't to their toktiks I bet RR would be empty.

Connor Dobsonwrote:

it's def the instagram that caused people to notice the roadside area, 30 minutes outside on of the largest tourist areas in the US. If only those influencers didn't to their toktiks I bet RR would be empty.

A bit of a strawman. What I mentioned has a huge impact, but it's certainly not the only thing. All those climbers cruising down the road from New York, Florida, Alabama, etc,  just happened upon Red Rock? Oh, wait...

Red Rock Canyon is a wondrous and beautiful place. There are a lot of reasons why it’s being loved to death. The most obvious answer is usually the correct one. It’s an easy place to love and the internet has changed everything.

Instagram? What about Mountain Project?

Mickwrote:

...and the internet has changed everything.

Instagram? What about Mountain Project?

MP is but a tiny fraction of the user base of Instagram. Probably not the case in Calico, but look at the loop road. For every one climber vehicle (local and tourist) there are what, 200, 300, 500 non-climbing tourist cars? 

MP just doesn't have the impact people think it does.