Accident Report and Analysis after a 30ft trad fall including a broken wire and two ripped pieces.

It’s a great episode and Kyle is articulate and self reflective as he tells his story. Huge kudos to him & his group for a successful self rescue.

Wear your helmets.

Anna Brownwrote:

It’s a great episode and Kyle is articulate and self reflective as he tells his story. Huge kudos to him & his group for a successful self rescue.

Wear your helmets.

I agree that the episode is worth a listen. It's helpful to hear the climber's story in a bit more detail, and his reflection on helmets, safety, and chasing grades offers some good lessons. I have to say I was a little disappointed in the specific accident analysis; there was very little. This thread contains much more detailed and useful discussion of why this fall led to a ground fall, from analyzing the strength rating of the pieces involved, the quality of the placements, and the mindset of the climber. I would have liked to hear a bit more analysis in the episode. Maybe posters here should offer to join these podcasts as a panel? Talk about entertaining :)

No Shame in hang dogging 

S2k4 MattOateswrote:

No Shame in hang dogging 

Not sure how this would have helped

Trad Manwrote:

Not sure how this would have helped

Accepting the possibility of hanging on gear or falling might have helped with the temptation to climb above poor protection. He was too pumped to place the BD .3 well (not micro gear in my book) and he kept climbing above. Another option: take the time to place it well and hang on it if needed. Ditto with the next piece. 

I don’t think .3 counts as micro gear either

10/10 would whip on well placed blue totem 

is that the same size as a blue alien or is it the blue BD about 3/8ths  inch wide? same size as yellow alien?   either way its a small cam with tiny moveing parts.  not even  remotely close to being as strong as a #6 stopper in the real world. it still falls into the category of it better be absolutely perfectly placed and in good rock category  INMOP. Yes it could be absolutely truck but it could also  blow out for a bunch of reasons that really don't matter. All that really matters is it is too small and complex to be the only thing keeping you from death or dismemberment....  Not to say that I don't place and rely on that size gear frequently just that  I do Not willfully huck on it . 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Not to say that I don't place and rely on that size gear frequently just that  I do Not willfully huck on it . 

Yeah, I get that, and of course it's a very personal choice. My point about this story is that he knew the placement was poor and he climbed above it anyway. This was one of a whole sequence of significant errors that led to the ground fall, and I would have liked to see them more specifically analyzed in the podcast, particularly as it's an AAC-affiliated production.

I have to say that after listening to the podcast episode I'm less inclined to mock the OP and more inclined to think "there but for the grace of God go I." His top piece IIRC was a well-placed nut-- the head stayed in the crack and the wire snapped! The second nut had significant damage/shear. It may too have appeared to be solid but the rock quality may have been the deciding factor in it ripping out. And okay his .3 cam wasn't ideal, but I have never considered that piece to be particularly tiny and I can certainly remember taking whips on mine without worry. I have also taken some memorable falls on small nuts rated no higher than 5kn and they've always held. My point is, after learning of his experience I will be more cautious about falling on such small gear. I am a big fan of doubling and tripling such gear at cruxes but OP's experience makes me think that this could well be inadequate. 

SethGwrote:

I have to say that after listening to the podcast episode I'm less inclined to mock the OP and more inclined to think "there but for the grace of God go I." His top piece IIRC was a well-placed nut-- the head stayed in the crack and the wire snapped!  My point is, after learning of his experience I will be more cautious about falling on such small gear. I am a big fan of doubling and tripling such gear at cruxes but OP's experience makes me think that this could well be inadequate. 

I agree, the snapping of the wire on a 5kn piece is unsettling, and I am by no means intending to mock the OP.

This all sounds like it would have been avoided completely with a simple soft catch. Cant generate enough force to break a wire if that transition wasn't so abrupt. I haven't listened to the podcast, so just a theory.

Ellen Swrote:

The Sharp End put out an episode on this subject. 

https://soundcloud.com/the_sharp_end/pulling-pieces-in-california-ep-72

Haven't listened to it myself.

Late to the discussion, but I stumbled on the episode, listened to it on the drive in Yosemite, and made a connection with this thread that I glanced at briefly a while back. I was impressed with the interview. Kyle, the OP, is humble, self reflective, and eager to share the lessons he learned. He had a summary of his takeaways. I have my own although most of them were acquired from the past experiences and observations. 

The discussion further solidified my biggest belief in climbing: do not take falling lightly. I've heard/known injuries big or small from falling in the gym, at sport crags, off boulders, or while trad climbing. Sure, the odds of bad things happening are low and many people fall left and right and most people did walk away unscathed. But in a fleeting second when a fall takes place, something or many things may go wrong, expectantly or surprisingly. When an injury occurs, I'd think no goal or achievement that has pushed one to that fall is really worth it. That said, accidents do happen. We are here to learn, not to judge. 

Best wishes to the OP!

Mei pronounced as Maywrote:

Late to the discussion, but I stumbled on the episode, listened to it on the drive in Yosemite, and made a connection with this thread that I glanced at briefly a while back. I was impressed with the interview. Kyle, the OP, is humble, self reflective, and eager to share the lessons he learned. He had a summary of his takeaways. I have my own although most of them were acquired from the past experiences and observations. 

The discussion further solidified my biggest belief in climbing: do not take falling lightly. I've heard/known injuries big or small from falling in the gym, at sport crags, off boulders, or while trad climbing. Sure, the odds of bad things happen are low and many people fall left and right and most people did walk away unscathed. But in a fleeting second when a fall takes place, something or many things may go wrong, expectantly or surprisingly. When an injury occurs, I'd think no goal or achievement that has pushed one to that fall is really worth it. That said, accidents do happen. We are here to learn, not to judge. 

Best wishes to the OP!

Unfortunately taking falls lightly is the new cool thing but I fully agree. I can take it lightly with the right belayer, just not all belayers. I'll take a solid hard catch  over some n00b practicing their soft catch any day. 

I just think it's strange how Donner Summit, Lake Tahoe, and Woodfords get mentioned like they're the same place at the beginning of that podcast.  Never is corrected.  Approach to Cloudburst Canyon is chill as well.  

Joseph Carterwrote:

I just think it's strange how Donner Summit, Lake Tahoe, and Woodfords get mentioned like they're the same place at the beginning of that podcast.  Never is corrected.  Approach to Cloudburst Canyon is chill as well.  

I noticed that too. That was odd.

Maybe Kyle allowed it to sound confusing on purpose?

Not everybody wanna blow up the spot..

Could be.  But it'd be like talking about Red Rock, Mt. Charleston, and Mt. Potosi as all the same area.  If you are plugging your climbing-pov site and talking on a podcast accuracy matters.  At least it does to me.  Any-who, all climbing areas mentioned already have easy accessible information.  

Billcoewrote:

Best to you Adam, and especially to both Kyles. Hopefully they get back at it and stay healthy and happy.   

I've ben getting Kyles climbing videos on my facebook feed. Looks like he had a full recovery and I'm a tad envious at the many great routes he's cruising these days. Looking both happy and healthy, congrats Kyle B! 

Kyle B indeed is crushing hard and living his best life.  As somebody who has advocated strongly for sharing openly and honestly on the accidents and injuries thread, I really appreciate his willingness to tell his story.  

That said, I don't know about the yellow technical overalls.  

Bruno Schullwrote:

That said, I don't know about the yellow technical overalls.  

Kyle is indeed a super nice guy and I think his podcast is the best climbing podcast around. I have to say though - the Livsn overalls are actually excellent. I got a pair for free and it’s basically all I wear climbing in the fall/winter/spring (if Colorado ever has those again). The farmer Fred styling above isn’t for everyone but they’re pretty great overall. Will have to wait for mine to die to see if I’d be willing to replace them at full price though.