The latest, greatest 2:1 hauling kit

Mikey Schaeferwrote:

The micro is actually recommended by Petzl as a hauling device.  See pic below.

There’s a difference between “hauling” descent shoes and a puffy vs a grade VI haulbag.  You can review the same pages for the pro-trax and see the recommended use cases are very different and include overnight haulbags - something not included for the micro.

While Petzl seems to rate both at 2.5 kn for the cam stripping the sheath off the rope, that’s going to depend heavily on the rope.  The guys doing 5+ day walls are generally running 10.5+ statics, which are not remotely  comparable to a dynamic lead rope.

The pro-trax is otherwise rated 50% stronger overall with 3x the weight in metal.  It’s also more efficient due to the larger axle and pulley.

I was among the first to use the RE Wall Haulers and remember those things deforming to the point of being useless after a few walls - became common knowledge and most swapped them out.  I replaced with a first gen pro-trax and it was night and day.  If someone like PTPP told me he’s gotten a dozen walls out of his micro, I’d be interested, otherwise there’s just no way.  Everyone thought Neutrinos could catch a Ford F150 based on numbers from a test fixture - until it was obvious they didn’t.

That said - good luck with that thing for truly heavy duty hauling - I don’t like it.

Barry Mwrote:

Are they working on a significant improvement 

There isn’t going to be any “significant improvement” but there will continue to be minor improvements.

The only danger of a micro breaking would be when space hauling or continuing to pump on a stuck bag. You can easily safety the micro with a draw when space hauling then simply using your brain and stop hauling when the bag gets stuck. 

Mark Hudonwrote:

The only danger of a micro breaking would be when space hauling or continuing to pump on a stuck bag. 

You acknowledging what I would call a common use case where the micro would break - pretty much validates my point.  In the first few days when the bags are heaviest and the angle on many routes lower - wanking the fuk out of the haul line is normal.  Nobody stops and raps down to free anything.

"If someone like PTPP told me he’s gotten a dozen walls out of his micro, I’d be interested, otherwise there’s just no way."

I use a Micro-Trax only for hauling my gear pig, and upside-down on top of my main loads as a Far End Hauler so I don't have to faff around with a plastic bottle "knot protector".  No knot = no knot protector required.  I would never 1:1 haul a Grade VI load with a Micro-Trax; the pulley is too small.  

For a 2:1, it doesn't much matter what you use to hold the weight of the pigs, because you're lifting with the other part of the system. Still, it is concerning to me to see a device only rated 2.5 kN a side with the cam engaged. That surprised me...

For my money, the Kong Block-Roll is far and away the best hauling device. It is a PERFECT fit to put a 2:1 over top of, and once you have drunk down the weight of all your beer, and you want to switch to 1:1, it's a great device for that too because of its big ass 3" pulley.

Every haul is different. You will switch back and forth on the wall from 2:1 to 1:1 often, depending on the weight of the pigs, whether the pigs are touching the wall or hanging free in space, whether the haul line is running across the base of the belay ledge or not, how the belay bolts are oriented with respect to any ledge, and whether you have a second person to counterweight haul on the opposite side of the haul line or not. Sure, you can back up the Micro-Trax with a quickdraw if you are space hauling while 2:1-ing, but isn't that spooky? Now you've got a lard-ass counterweight climber jugging on the free end of the haul line while you're cranking the 2:1, you've got enormous pigs on the other side of the hauling device, and then the pigs get stuck. So you start bouncing a bit to try to free them. On a static rope, it would not take a lot of bouncing a heavy load to reach 2.5 kN of force, I should think.

Would you use a 2.5 kN carabiner in your system? Would you rappel from it? Would you clip it to a bolt? These are things to think about...

A Micro-Trax would be my haul device of choice on a Grade V wall with light loads, or to haul my gear pig. But not a full-size Grade VI or big wall camping load - it just ain't burly enough. You guys know how hard it is to wrestle a heavy ass load up a difficult slab or what have you. Do you really want a Micro-Trax for that application?  Don't you want something burlier.  I like burly.  

And I wouldn't use a Micro-Trax on my 2:1 rig either - the Kong just works that much better.  

What's the upside/downside of breaking this down or using other multi-use components into it? 

For example, while leading I have a normal hand ascender and Grigri for jugging back up-line if I fall; can I (should I?) use that ascender instead of the Basic, and now I don't have to carry both? What if that ascender was the CT Quick Roll; now do I not have to carry the lower pulley, using only the integrated one? Additionally, I always carry my PPP (personal pleasure pulley, DMM revolver); can I just snap that on (maybe on a triple-shortened sling to counter rotation) to the main 'biner and save the weight of that dedicated pulley also?

Yes, I'm losing pulley efficiency, and this is definitely not an improvement on the posted systems, but for small to moderate loads and a lazy leader, am I crazy that this might decrease equipment weight and carriage? Now I don't have to tag up the hauling kit, it's just the regular multi-use problem-solving kit I have already racked.

I’d guess that having the entire Kit pretty much “fixed” and in its own little stuff sack makes it way less likely that one would ever end up at an anchor with an incomplete 2:1 kit….

Seems like that alone is worth not breaking down the kit 

for “small to moderate loads” seems easier to 1:1 

Skot Richardswrote: 

In this system, is it required to release the cam on the CMC Omni pulley each time you need to reset the system (after every pull)?

^^ re above photo

Looks like the entire haul rig is on a single bolt with no backup?!  If that bolt fails ...

A quick solution is to connect the two bolts with a Yates Screamer. 

Or if red rope is dynamic, shorten the distance in it between bolts. 

Any cam on any pulley in the 2:1 lifting section would necessarily have to be latched open. You can't continually be opening a cam or it'll take you forever to haul.  

"Any cam on any pulley in the 2:1 lifting section would necessarily have to be latched open. You can't continually be opening a cam or it'll take you forever to haul. "  

That's what I was thinking.  So, why not just use a normal pulley on the 2:1 setup and then just pull down on the haul line, which is running through a PCP as you pull down on the z cord?

Peter Zabrokwrote:

^^ re above photo

Looks like the entire haul rig is on a single bolt with no backup?!  If that bolt fails ...

A quick solution is to connect the two bolts with a Yates Screamer. 

Or if red rope is dynamic, shorten the distance in it between bolts. 

If that bolt fails, the red rope is the backup.

Considering that it's a big, shiny bolt in bullet granite, I wouldn't even worry about it.  The toothed PCDs would strip the sheath, the rope would cut, and all of those carabiners and pulleys would explode before the bolt/hanger even flinched.  If that was a trad anchor, then you'd have a point. 

And a screamer between the bolts?  

Jeremy Giddenswrote:

So, why not just use a normal pulley on the 2:1 setup and then just pull down on the haul line, which is running through a PCP as you pull down on the z cord?

That is exactly what is going on in this picture.  The Omni pulley does not have a cam on it.  It is just a normal high efficiency pulley.  The PCP is a Micro on the black rope.  There is no "cam latched open".

Jeremy Giddenswrote:

In this system, is it required to release the cam on the CMC Omni pulley each time you need to reset the system (after every pull)?

There is no cam on the Omnicron pulley…. Haha. See what I did there!   Haha. 

Peter Zabrokwrote:

^^ re above photo

Looks like the entire haul rig is on a single bolt with no backup?!  If that bolt fails ...

A quick solution is to connect the two bolts with a Yates Screamer. 

Or if red rope is dynamic, shorten the distance in it between bolts. 

Any cam on any pulley in the 2:1 lifting section would necessarily have to be latched open. You can't continually be opening a cam or it'll take you forever to haul.  

When was the last time a 3/8” stainless steel bolt failed?  There are far more important things to worry about, Eh…   Like government overreach.   Whahahhahahha 

Skot Richardswrote:

When was the last time a 3/8” stainless steel bolt failed?  There are far more important things to worry about, Eh…   Like government overreach.   Whahahhahahha 

Last one I know of in Yosemite was in 2017 on Super Slide. 

Redundancy in everything is the key to survival. Build it in wherever possible. 

The Beef.

Here’s my current setup. Same shit, slightly different stuff. 

I used to use those little red pulleys 20 years ago. They suck. 

Buy a couple high efficiency pulleys, you won't believe the difference. 

I was just telling my partner that I didn’t like those. I plan on swapping them out with the Petzl Rescue pulleys. 

Peter Zabrokwrote:

Buy a couple high efficiency pulleys, you won't believe the difference. 

What do you use/like?