An unpopular take on The Alpinist

WF WF51wrote:

Or even just following the well trodden path of job, marriage, kids, mediocrity, death. 

99% of climbers, of course, live amazing, amazing lives.

You’re taking this off topic since I’m not even talking about climbers. I’m talking about those who pursue their passions.

But I’ll bite anyways and say that climbers live better lives than most average people. Atleast they get outside. Atleast they pursue something that isn’t entirely extrinsically motivated by others. And generally they don’t sit on some high horse pretending they are saving the world or self sacrificing for the betterment of others. Yes I’m generalizing and there are exceptions. 

The only climbing movie I need ya chumps

Climbers and Hollywood is always an awkward combination.

who are any of those people?

I think the guy on the way right is in Blues Traveler and the guy on the way left looks like my neighbor’s landlord. 

i think your neighbor’s  landlord is maybe hooking up with the redhead from That 70’s Show. nice. 

I do like how the guy in green just likes to point at things. "YO CHECK THIS PERSON OUT!"

That's Emily Harrington, I'd recognize those abs anywhere.

rate limited: bluff with confidence!

Yup, there's something up with that guy in green.

petzl logicwrote:

That's Emily Harrington, I'd recognize those abs anywhere.

I think you've been oogling the wrong abs.

Try googling instead.

Some of the posters in this thread could really benefit from reading Kiss or Kill. Or really a lot more media from people who have actually done similar shit.

We watched this on NYE. WOW! what a loss to humanity. Marc seemed like a really bright light. The smoothest climber I have ever watched. Seemed like he was always in control.   the fact that he was roped up when they got chopped seems lost on the detractors.   This is just one more reminder that big mountains in AK in winter is a suicide mission...   Avalanches suck and almost everyone who plays that game ends up getting flushed.... 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

We watched this on NYE. WOW! what a loss to humanity. Marc seemed like a really bright light. The smoothest climber I have ever watched. Seemed like he was always in control.   the fact that he was roped up when they got chopped seems lost on the detractors.   This is just one more reminder that big mountains in AK in winter is a suicide mission...   Avalanches suck and almost everyone who plays that game ends up getting flushed.... 

No, dude, what we detractors decried was his taking as a partner for his ass-brained suicide mission who was a new father of a 2 yo girl who is also dead and gone. For nothing.

What a pathetic waste it all was. 

A V wrote:

If you paid any attention at all you would notice that the climb was Ryan Johnson’s vision, and MAL was supporting him on the idea. 

Not that it matters in the end - feel free to make this argument about any skier that dies in an avalanche, any moto sport racer that dies on the track, climber that dies of rockfall, biker that is hit by a car on their commute, or any hiker that dies of exposure.

Tragedy is afoot for anybody that leaves their home to recreate - so what exactly qualifies as a pathetic waste, exactly? Anybody that is unfortunate enough to perish? Or maybe it’s the people that feel the need to insist that they know better - while also conveniently failing to acknowledge their own good fortune? 

Fear response.

those big mountain skiers are pushing pretty hard . pretty much anyone who plays in that terrain in winter will get flushed. just a matter of time.  avalanches suck... 

hillbilly hijinkswrote:

No, dude, what we detractors decried was his taking as a partner for his ass-brained suicide mission who was a new father of a 2 yo girl who is also dead and gone. For nothing.

What a pathetic waste it all was. 

Every death in this useless pursuit is a pathetic waste. It's a risk we acknowledge, and, it's what our life partners need to understand about us. 

Ryan Johnson was not a newb, nor new to Alaska climbing. I'm guessing he likely had people in his circle who had already perished, and this was already discussed in his household.

I'm a mere rock climber, but as a mom who's first partner was her son? I thought a lot about this thing we do. Leaving him without a mother, and perhaps him being the partner I was with when I died. We've even talked about it, the possibility of mom splatting. What it boils down to, is caring for your partner as much as you would your own child, or mom. Respecting that partner's judgement, and, a sort of nod to the possibility of it going horribly wrong. My partners know I know this. Let's both do everything we can to prevent mistakes, but, if shit goes bad anyway, they know I have accepted that risk.

My alpine friends include one who died pretty recently. He left behind a wife and a bunch of young kids. She understood this risk, even more so all of us, his climbing friends.

It doesn't lessen the grief for our friend, and our anger at his senseless death. But? Somehow? The head game to do this at all, includes surviving being the survivor, getting through the worst somehow. 

Mountains are not the only place senseless death stalks, not by a longshot.

That ability to survive, mentally?

Has kept me alive.

Best, Helen

A V wrote:

Tragedy is afoot for anybody that leaves their home to recreate - so what qualifies as a pathetic waste, exactly? Anybody that is unfortunate enough to perish? Or maybe it’s the people that feel the need to insist that they know better - while also conveniently failing to acknowledge their own good fortune? 

Those plus at least the one's that lament in their last days "I've never done a thing I wanted to in all my life."

A "pathetic waste" comes in many forms.

Difference is that the big mountain skiers have a hellicopter and recovery crew on standby while they shoot. climbers just disappear...  The pro skiers know that shit is going to slide but they ski through it anyways. they have inflatable vests, a helicopter filming and doing overwatch, film crews at other vantage points  and recovery teams poised to spring into action with all of them in radio contact. with all of that support in place some of the pro skiers and riders still die.  pro climbers on the other hand just go out there by themselves, rappel through that shit and disappear.... 

Old lady Hwrote:

Every death in this useless pursuit is a pathetic waste. It's a risk we acknowledge, and, it's what our life partners need to understand about us. 

Ryan Johnson was not a newb, nor new to Alaska climbing. I'm guessing he likely had people in his circle who had already perished, and this was already discussed in his household.

I'm a mere rock climber, but as a mom who's first partner was her son? I thought a lot about this thing we do. Leaving him without a mother, and perhaps him being the partner I was with when I died. We've even talked about it, the possibility of mom splatting. What it boils down to, is caring for your partner as much as you would your own child, or mom. Respecting that partner's judgement, and, a sort of nod to the possibility of it going horribly wrong. My partners know I know this. Let's both do everything we can to prevent mistakes, but, if shit goes bad anyway, they know I have accepted that risk.

My alpine friends include one who died pretty recently. He left behind a wife and a bunch of young kids. She understood this risk, even more so all of us, his climbing friends.

It doesn't lessen the grief for our friend, and our anger at his senseless death. But? Somehow? The head game to do this at all, includes surviving being the survivor, getting through the worst somehow. 

Mountains are not the only place senseless death stalks, not by a longshot.

That ability to survive, mentally?

Has kept me alive.

Best, Helen

No Helen, some are more senseless than others. 

FA in the Coast Ranges of Alaska in Winter (iirc) is pretty much the definition of dice roll with the odds of "snake eyes" being guaranteed, just a matter of time.

Others ie do an approach up the Valley of Death to the Cassin ridge rolling the dice but avalanches across the approach are relatively rare. Some risks are reasonable. The risk that Ryan and Marc took after being trapped on the mountain in storm for days would have gone under the "miracle" category if they made it out alive. Anyone knowing their objective and time of year would say the same that there was a high chance of death from objective hazard regardless of the climbers skill...and that is senseless to me. Truly it was Russian Roulette for no good reason. No one will ever convince me it was worth it or something noble was being done.

 Conversely the risks involved in standard rock and ice climbing are perfectly reasonable, imo. These attempts to rationalize their accident as the same as going to the grocery store are ridiculous.

Regardless, "calm" does not remotely mean safe from objective hazards. Whether they died during calm conditions is as much pure conjecture and wishful thinking that they were somehow taking prudent measures lol.

"Tragedy is afoot for anybody that leaves their home to recreate..." Is very much close enough to what I stated about a grocery run.

A V wrote:

Lol your idea of recreation is going to the grocery store? 

Well, there's also the minding of Sharma's underarm scent