Climbing Gyms are Legit

A 5.12+ V6 gym climber that's never done slab or offwidth will have some trouble at first when they try these types of climbing. But it won't take them long to master these types of routes if they spend a bit of time focusing on them. The athletic and mental skills developed in a gym can be adapted to the outdoors faster than most trad dads would like to believe.

soft cruxwrote:

A 5.12+ V6 gym climber that's never done slab or offwidth will have some trouble at first when they try these types of climbing. But it won't take them long to master these types of routes if they spend a bit of time focusing on them. The athletic and mental skills developed in a gym can be adapted to the outdoors faster than most trad dads would like to believe.

I would guess it would also matter if they favored vertical or overhanging stuff, a little, anyway. A 12+ has good technique, and knows footwork. I think feet could transfer quickly to slab. OW? Not sure, unless they were doing routes using big body parts. Knee bars would translate to OW, for example. 

It's rare to find lower angles on gym routes, but they are out there. Volumes and smearing the wall, that's not hard to find. Many gyms have cracks now, too, including OW and some chimneys. Holds can be set for jams, and almost anything else you want, within the limits of the wall angles. 

Interesting question to think about!

Best, H.

Dan Dwrote:

What a strange thing to say. Especially for a grown adult.

Um... whoosh?

It was a joke about the fact that the sentence illustrating the meaning of "duffing" used a girl named Hillary ("Hillary... was caught duffing"). A bit crass, perhaps, but I found the wordplay humorous.

I get it, Andrew, it’s a clever play on words and she’s a hottie! In the spirit of the Urban Dictionary, I’d say.

Andrew Krajnikwrote:

Um... whoosh?

It was a joke about the fact that the sentence illustrating the meaning of "duffing" used a girl named Hillary ("Hillary... was caught duffing"). A bit crass, perhaps, but I found the wordplay humorous.

I didn't read the whole Urban Dictonary screenshot and missed the example sentence using "Hillary", so that's my bad. I thought you were just going from "Duffing" to "Hillary Duff is a slut"

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Time after time we are proven that given some time, gym climbers will obliterate anyone in their discipline. Carlo Traversi, someone who quite literally attributes their climbing passion to being discovered in the gym sent the hardest slab in America. 

I think this should be changed to "given some experience". 

I honestly can't think of a single "gym climber" (to me this is someone who climbs at the gym more than outdoors) who is climbing consistently at the highest of levels (5.15 and V15). I'm sure there are a couple, but it takes experience to get there. This is even exacerbated when you add in elite trade routes 5.14 and above. With the the exception of the wide boyz, what "gym climber" is climbing 5.14 trad routes? Not "has climbed in a gym before", but which climbers that predominantly climb in a gym are climbing consistent 5.15 sport, V15 boulders, or 5.14 trad? I'm genuinely curious to know if anyone can list more than a half dozen.

I'm not sure that anyone is disagreeing with you in that gyms don't help progression happen quicker, but I really don't think you can become one of the best climbers by only, or even mostly, climbing in the gym. I may be wrong, but I can't recall many. Even your example of Sean Bailey supports the idea that gym climbers need experience to become world class outside. I know it's hard to imagine but V13 and 5.14 sport really aren't that uncommon anymore.

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

I think this should be changed to "given some experience". 

Sure

I honestly can't think of a single "gym climber" (to me this is someone who climbs at the gym more than outdoors) who is climbing consistently at the highest of levels (5.15 and V15). I'm sure there are a couple, but it takes experience to get there. This is even exacerbated when you add in elite trade routes 5.14 and above. With the the exception of the wide boyz, what "gym climber" is climbing 5.14 trad routes? Not "has climbed in a gym before", but which climbers that predominantly climb in a gym are climbing consistent 5.15 sport, V15 boulders, or 5.14 trad? I'm genuinely curious to know if anyone can list more than a half dozen.

It is kinda impossible to know exactly who climbs in the gym more than 50% of the time. The three I feel pretty confident that meet this metric are Nathaniel Coleman (I think in the Bone Tomahawk video he says he hardly ever climbs outside), Janja Garnbret, and Alex Puccio (who seems to always be in the gym on insta even on days she climbs outside). 

I think its also a fair assumption to assume those who made the olympic/national teams climb in the gym a lot. I would include Sean Bailey and Drew Ruana (tho Drew seems to maybe spend more time outside now that he didn't make the olympic squad). Although these two both did climb outside as children. 

I would also include Laura Rogora who went to the olympics and sent Erebor. Miho Nonaka sent Mr. Hyde and competed in the olympics this year. Stefano won lead and sent bibliographie this year. Ondra/Megos' also spent most the year in the gym training for the olympics and still performed well outside.  Sashi could be included for prior years pretty much mostly climbing in the gym and then setting records outdoors. 

There is also a point to be made for those who were exceptional gym/comp climbers and have transitioned away from the gyms like Emily Harrington who I wouldn't lump in with Trad Dads or Gym Climbers. I would also throw Daniel Woods and Paul Robinson into the other category. 

People who I don't think climb in the gym often would be Jimmy Webb, Jonathan Siegriest, Jordan Cannon and Joe Kinder.

I tension board outside 

I put rock holds on my indoor wall.

M Mwrote:

I put rock holds on my indoor wall.

I put my rocks on indoor walls if you get my drift 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

It is kinda impossible to know exactly who climbs in the gym more than 50% of the time. The three I feel pretty confident that meet this metric are Nathaniel Coleman (I think in the Bone Tomahawk video he says he hardly ever climbs outside), Janja Garnbret, and Alex Puccio (who seems to always be in the gym on insta even on days she climbs outside). 

I think its also a fair assumption to assume those who made the olympic/national teams climb in the gym a lot. I would include Sean Bailey and Drew Ruana (tho Drew seems to maybe spend more time outside now that he didn't make the olympic squad). Although these two both did climb outside as children. 

I would also include Laura Rogora who went to the olympics and sent Erebor. Miho Nonaka sent Mr. Hyde and competed in the olympics this year. Stefano won lead and sent bibliographie this year. Ondra/Megos' also spent most the year in the gym training for the olympics and still performed well outside.  Sashi could be included for prior years pretty much mostly climbing in the gym and then setting records outdoors. 

There is also a point to be made for those who were exceptional gym/comp climbers and have transitioned away from the gyms like Emily Harrington who I wouldn't lump in with Trad Dads or Gym Climbers. I would also throw Daniel Woods and Paul Robinson into the other category. 

People who I don't think climb in the gym often would be Jimmy Webb, Jonathan Siegriest, Jordan Cannon and Joe Kinder.

Nathaniel Coleman is a fair point. I honestly don't know much about Janja's outdoor accomplishments. What has she done outdoors (I honestly don't know much)? She may be a good example of being the best female gym/comp climber while not even climbing 5.15 outdoors (unless she has that.....idk). 

Steezy sent hard outdoor sport after transitioning away from the gym/olympic qualifying. Same with Drew. Obviously training in the gym allowed both of them to prepare them to make the transition much quicker. Again something to be said about learning the nuances of outdoor climbing while projecting.

I don't know much about Laura Rogora aside from that she has climbed 5.15b (right?). Idk any of hr gym/comp climbing accomplishments. Stefano has a significant amount of outdoor climbing experience, and one could argue his outdoor accomplishments outweigh his comp climbing. Miho has not sent 5.15 or V15 to my knowledge and even says she made the leap from 5.13- to 5.14+ because she spent so much time as a comp climber and never projected anything outdoors. Megos and Ondra are two of the most accomplished climbers on rock ever, so I'm not sure that's they are best examples either. Ondra literally makes up shitty V15+ traverses on outdoor boulders as training. He and Puccio are the only one two who I can think of though where his comp/gym accomplishments match their outdoor feats. 

You are making my point for me. Emily Harrington transitioned away from comp climbing and sends her hardest routes. I would also lump D-Woods into the doesn't-climb-in-the-gym-much crowd currently. I recall a post about how it was the first he was in a gym in like 4 months after sending sleepwalker. He stoped winning world cups and then proceeded to put up how many V15's, V16's, and V17....all while be washed up....according to you   

I understand your point, and I was trying to portray that in my previous post...however, I honestly think to climb at truly elite levels (5.15 sport, 5.14 trad, and V15) you can't be a "gym rat" and have to "put in your time" to accomplish these grades. Aside from Ondra I can't think of anyone who has won multiple world cups AND pushed the grades in any discipline. 

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

Nathaniel Coleman is a fair point. I honestly don't know much about Janja's outdoor accomplishments. What has she done outdoors (I honestly don't know much)? She may be a good example of being the best female gym/comp climber while not even climbing 5.15 outdoors (unless she has that.....idk). 

She climbed two 14ds in a few days and I think has the two best onsights by a woman of all time. 

I don't know much about Laura Rogora aside from that she has climbed 5.15b (right?). 

15b and onsighted 14a. She also made it to the olympics and got second in the Euro champs and she is only 20.

Stefano has a significant amount of outdoor climbing experience, and one could argue his outdoor accomplishments outweigh his comp climbing. 

He won overall world cup this year didn't he? I at the very least would consider his accomplishments close. 

Miho has not sent 5.15 or V15 to my knowledge and even says she made the leap from 5.13- to 5.14+ because she spent so much time as a comp climber and never projected anything outdoors.

Yeah she didn't really work through the grades at all she just put slightly more effort in.

 Megos and Ondra are two of the most accomplished climbers on rock ever, so I'm not sure that's they are best examples either. Ondra literally makes up shitty V15+ traverses on outdoor boulders as training. He and Puccio are the only one two who I can think of though where his comp/gym accomplishments match their outdoor feats. 

Yeah but he spent much of the year training indoors. 

You are making my point for me. Emily Harrington transitioned away from comp climbing and sends her hardest routes. I would also lump D-Woods into the doesn't-climb-in-the-gym-much crowd currently. I recall a post about how it was the first he was in a gym in like 4 months after sending sleepwalker. He stoped winning world cups and then proceeded to put up how many V15's, V16's, and V17....all while be washed up....according to you   

I said he was gonna be washed up in 5 years not right now!

I understand your point, and I was trying to portray that in my previous post...however, I honestly think to climb at truly elite levels (5.15 sport, 5.14 trad, and V15) you can't be a "gym rat" and have to "put in your time" to accomplish these grades. Aside from Ondra I can't think of anyone who has won multiple world cups AND pushed the grades in any discipline. 

I guess you think of a gym rat differently than me. If someone climbs in the gym twice a week and outdoors twice a week I would lump them into a possible grouping with gym climbers. Regardless we don't see a lot of success cases of people who almost exclusively climb outside. There are no examples of people who predominantly climb spooky slab in the modern era that are regarded as the greatest climbers in the world. I think if you took the gym away, the landscape of climbing would regress some.  

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

She climbed two 14ds in a few days and I think has the two best onsights by a woman of all time. 

Still kind of a long ways from the hardest ascents for a female, yet one of the most accomplished gym/comp climbers

15b and onsighted 14a. She also made it to the olympics and got second in the Euro champs and she is only 20.

Got me there. Again,, I don't know much about her

He won overall world cup this year didn't he? I at the very least would consider his accomplishments close. 

One World Cup compared to how many 5.15's...let alone 5.15 FA's.

Yeah she didn't really work through the grades at all she just put slightly more effort in.

Effort or time/experience?

Yeah but he spent much of the year training indoors. 

And his outdoor accomplishments suffered due to this

I said he was gonna be washed up in 5 years not right now!

If you say so   

I guess you think of a gym rat differently than me. If someone climbs in the gym twice a week and outdoors twice a week I would lump them into a possible grouping with gym climbers. Regardless we don't see a lot of success cases of people who almost exclusively climb outside. There are no examples of people who predominantly climb spooky slab in the modern era that are regarded as the greatest climbers in the world. I think if you took the gym away, the landscape of climbing would regress some.  

Perhaps. I find it odd you consider someone who spends equal amount of time both places to be considered a gym climber, but that's splitting hairs. I think what you do see if pro's climbing almost exclusively outside for extended periods of time (a month or more)...especially when sending their hardest. What does slab have to do with anything? What slab climbs are there that are even like 5.14+ or V14...closest I can think of are some J-Star routes in the Fins...even those are only Kentucky slab. I don't know if it would regress, but I think that grades would certainly plateau for longer durations.