Climbing Gyms are Legit

I suppose people that strictly climb in the gym are climbers, like arborists are climbers, they just can’t honestly call themselves rock climbers

Kevin Worrallwrote:

I suppose people that strictly climb in the gym are climbers, like arborists are climbers, they just can’t honestly call themselves rock climbers

As well as someone who lifts weights in the gym couldnt call themselves a weight lifter.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

I haven't kept up with the whole tread, but I dont consider your average gym goer a "climber", just like the people I know that go to traditional gyms aren't "weight lifters". All of these people just go to the gym. 

Climbers have climbing goals, besides 'getting the white 6 before it gets taken down'. You don't necessarily need to be training for outdoor goals, as one could be training for comps, or the Olympics, etc, without ever wanting to climb outside, but to just show up at the gym, hang around and climb, even regularly, doesn't make you a climber.

Seems unnecessarily gate-keepy to me…

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

I haven't kept up with the whole tread, but I dont consider your average gym goer a "climber", just like the people I know that go to traditional gyms aren't "weight lifters". All of these people just go to the gym. 

Climbers have climbing goals, besides 'getting the white 6 before it gets taken down'. You don't necessarily need to be training for outdoor goals, as one could be training for comps, or the Olympics, etc, without ever wanting to climb outside, but to just show up at the gym, hang around and climb, even regularly, doesn't make you a climber.

FYI, the majority of climbers (inside or out), gym goers, weightlifters, etc are average, as are people who don't lift weights, go to gyms, or climb.

Except you, apparently.

Thank you for gracing our decrepitude and mediocrity with your elite presence!

Best, Helen

Old lady Hwrote:

FYI, the majority of climbers (inside or out), gym goers, weightlifters, etc are average, as are people who don't lift weights, go to gyms, or climb.

Except you, apparently.

Thank you for gracing our decrepitude and mediocrity with your elite presence!

Best, Helen

What? Can you not be a gumby, or average climber with goals? Can you not be puny and max the bar with goals? I swear you people can get offended by anything. Please block me so you stop seeing my posts, OLH, or maybe read them without your bitterness turned up.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

What? Can you not be a gumby, or average climber with goals? Can you not be puny and max the bar with goals? I swear you people can get offended by anything. Please block me so you stop seeing my posts, OLH, or maybe read them without your bitterness turned up.

Lol! 

You used the word "average", and in a way which dumps a lot of people into a less than you heap. That also defies the meaning of average, which amused me.

And you also don't know me, or my sense of humour.

Apologies, on the last, and sorry you missed that. No bitterness here!

Full disclosure, I climb, go to gyms, lift weights and I'm considerably below average at pretty much everything I do.

But I'm almost 65, so I don't give a FF what others think of my abilities. That's a huge waste of time...and people. Hard on friendships, too.

Oh, and I do not block people. I talk to them. 

They may be future friends. 

Best, Helen

EDIT to add, and yes, I am a climber. And will be until I die, even if I no longer climb at 104, still a climber.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

I haven't kept up with the whole tread, but I dont consider your average gym goer a "climber", just like the people I know that go to traditional gyms aren't "weight lifters". All of these people just go to the gym. 

Climbers have climbing goals, besides 'getting the white 6 before it gets taken down'. You don't necessarily need to be training for outdoor goals, as one could be training for comps, or the Olympics, etc, without ever wanting to climb outside, but to just show up at the gym, hang around and climb, even regularly, doesn't make you a climber.

LOL...there’s a shit-ton of l climbers who climb on real rock outside regularly, who don’t really have “goals” any more than the indoor climbers you are describing. In terms of goals there’s pretty much no difference between a goal of getting up the white route in the corner before it comes down or getting up the 5.9 at your local crag, except for maybe time scale and medium (rock vs plastic). I’d say there are far more climbers who don’t really train than there are those that do, indoor or outside.

If people keep getting offended when you speak...maybe the problem is not with them.

csproulwrote:

LOL...there’s a shit-ton of l climbers who climb on real rock outside regularly, who don’t really have “goals” any more than the indoor climbers you are describing. In terms of goals there’s pretty much no difference between a goal of getting up the white route in the corner before it comes down or getting up the 5.9 at your local crag, except for maybe time scale and medium (rock vs plastic). I’d say there are far more climbers who don’t really train than there are those that do, indoor or outside.

If people keep getting offended when you speak...maybe the problem is not with them.

Nah, the world is just soft af anymore. Can't say anything without people crapping their pants. I think it's the experimental drugs everyone's been on. 

Explain to me how I'm a weight lifter because I curl dumbbells once a week? I'm not, because I'm not. I guess you can be whatever you wanna call yourself these days though. If a gym goer wants to identify as a climber for 6 months for their IG.... go right ahead.

@OLH, Im average myself, but I need you to keep identifying me as exceptional, because your feels are very important to me.

Reply to post below...

Exactly! Lol

@Csproul

Right after you tell me how lifting weights once a week (aka regularly) makes me a weight lifter.

I dont have a garage.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

Nah, the world is just soft af anymore. Can't say anything without people crapping their pants. I think it's the experimental drugs everyone's been on. 

Explain to me how I'm a weight lifter because I curl dumbbells once a week? I'm not, because I'm not. I guess you can be whatever you wanna call yourself these days though. If a gym goer wants to identify as a climber for 6 months for their IG.... go right ahead.

@OLH, Im average myself, but I need you to keep identifying me as exceptional, because your feels are very important to me.

https://youtu.be/unkIVvjZc9Y

:-)

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

Nah, the world is just soft af anymore. Can't say anything without people crapping their pants. I think it's the experimental drugs everyone's been on. 

Explain to me how I'm a weight lifter because I curl dumbbells once a week? I'm not, because I'm not. I guess you can be whatever you wanna call yourself these days though. If a gym goer wants to identify as a climber for 6 months for their IG.... go right ahead.

@OLH, Im average myself, but I need you to keep identifying me as exceptional, because your feels are very important to me.

Reply to post below...

Exactly! Lol

So you said 

 “but to just show up at the gym, hang around and climb, even regularly, doesn't make you a climber.”

Do you feel the same way about people who hang around the crags and climb, even regularly? Are they climbers?

You can call yourself weight lifter. Nobody seems to care but you. But if you’re going to apply criteria to your labels, you should at least try to be consistent. Or at the very least , stop moving the goalposts from one based on “goals” to one that now is based on “regularity”.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

Can't say anything without people crapping their pants.

TBH it sounds like you're the one who's all in your feelings about this. Everyone is is just saying "I don't care what people call themselves" while you're over here trying to litigate what makes a "real" climber..

Ah semantics, the game where we all get to be wrong. Seems like most of the arguments I hear/read hinge on people's reluctance to accept that there are multiple valid definitions of words. This said, I'll make an ass of myself with the following half-truth:

If your primary motivation for climbing is to be identified as a climber, you are not a climber.

 Yeah but is five climbing stickers on the car enough to be a real climber or do I need ten or more? Will a quickdraw on the rear view mirror help?

I think pragmatically the word climber isn't even helpful. When someone says, "I am a climber" the spectrum varies from top rope once a week in the gym to aiding climbing the nose every other day to bouldering just high quality classics. I can't think of any hobby with as much variation other than maybe skateboarding. Anyway I would rather be classified as a gumby since people do know what that means. 

J T wrote:

Huh?

A V10 climber can obviously figure out a 5.6 faster than a 5.6 climber can figure a V10 climber. What point are you trying to make by comparing the two….?

I didn't see this but Kevin was essentially implying that climbing multipitch slab is a complex skill. I think most proficient gym climbers could figure it out. I also find it funny that the vast majority of currently exceptional trad climbers have some background in gym climbing. 

Congratulations on another pointless argument.

But since I cant help myself here's your little bit of attention to feel whatever it is that it makes you feel.

Climber indoor only climbers, sport climbers, trad climbers, wisteria etc.

Rock climber, if you care about words than outdoor only I guess 'cos rock but meh.

Proper climber, climbs trad hopefully in the rain and has a pork pie for lunch, or something like that.

Ultra-modern, super way of the future climber, does bridge cracks, nuff said.

Sorted.

Seriously why give a fudge ha'penny.

All I know is that I really don’t care about labels.  I know a dude that climbs once in a while in the gym because he can’t stop having kids, doesn’t train that often from a purely climbing standpoint, and stands around a lot bullshitting with people rather than climbing.  He regularly flashes my projects and took one fall on The Casual Route on the Diamond in an onsight attempt.  Guess he’s not a “real climber”.  Labels are stupid.  Except for Gumby.  It’s kind of endearing and also denigrating at the same time.  It can also conveniently be applied to other endeavors.  I can’t roll properly yet.  I’m a “paddling gumby”.  So useful.  

Kevin Worrallwrote:

Outdoor climbing skills not learned in a gym:

Routefinding

Climbing through loose rock

Placing protection

Removing protection

Building anchors

Rope management

Knots and hitches for particular situations

Weather reading - lightning, wind, precipitation, temps

Orienteering

Descent tactics

Speed climbing

Foreseeing hauling problems

Multi pitch gear management

Rope drag management

Judgement calls on multi pitch - continue or bail?

Judgement on essentials - fast and light

Gear selection per pitch

Belay position choice

Approach choices

Descent choices 

Reading the rock

I’m sure there’s more

Outdoor climbing skills not learned unless you're specifically multipitching/big walling: 

Most of your examples.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

I haven't kept up with the whole tread, but I dont consider your average gym goer a "climber", just like the people I know that go to traditional gyms aren't "weight lifters". All of these people just go to the gym. 

This guy gets it. Just doing a thing doesn't mean it defines you. If I just happen to f*ck a sheep from time to time, that doesn't mean I should be labeled a "sheep f*cker." 

JonasMRwrote:

This guy gets it. Just doing a thing doesn't mean it defines you. If I just happen to f*ck a sheep from time to time, that doesn't mean I should be labeled a "sheep f*cker." 

Oh no, you are mistaken. Once you fuck a sheep, you will always be known as the sheep fucker. 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

I didn't see this but Kevin was essentially implying that climbing multipitch slab is a complex skill. I think most proficient gym climbers could figure it out. I also find it funny that the vast majority of currently exceptional trad climbers have some background in gym climbing. 

No he wasn’t, but again, how is comparing a V10 climber to a 5.6 climber (regardless of style) remotely a fair or productive comparison? I sincerely have no idea what point you are trying to make by comparing the two…

I’m with Kevin in that there are a whole helluva lot of subtleties that multipitch slab can present. All of which have no correlation to strength.