Getting divorced and climbing is a big reason why. Advice?

William Carson wrote:

 the second its no longer easy, im fuckin outta here. and she knows that. 

What a pathetic outlook on life...

William Carson wrote:

im childish for suggesting people shouldnt stay in unhappy relationships, but your 2nd grade reading comprehension is... mature? straighten this out fer me thx. 

No, not childish.  It just sound like you're the type that when the going gets tough,  you run... 

William Carson wrote:

what a pathetic response..

But when the shit hits the fan, you run away...

William Carson wrote:

was married 14 years.. she hated my climbing, wasnt into climbing.. i mean she just kinda hated everything about me, and im sure the only reason we stayed together for as long as we did was for fear o the shame of divorce.

but then i fucked around on her and got caught.. she finally had the christian justification for divorce, faultless on her part. on the surface, anyway

ill never marry again, i can tell you that much. marriage is emotional and legal extortion... compulsory love. thats bullshit. the ONLY reason two people should EVER be together is because they are happy and want to be. the moment that isnt the case anymore, its done. fuckin man up .. or woman up.. and do what needs be done.

ive got a little sweetheart now, weve been together going on two years. it hasnt always been easy, but..... LOL. no. just kidding. it absolutely HAS always been easy, and the second its no longer easy, im fuckin outta here. and she knows that. and she has promised me that she'll do the same, if the time comes. life is WAY too short to be shackled to someone you arent happy with.

we all hear some of these old couples that have been together for a billion years.. 30 years, 40, 50+... and they all say the same shit- some variation on: well, it wasnt easy. boy it was NOT easy. we had some hard, hard, goddamn rough times, ill tell ya.. we weathered some storms we really didnt know if we'd make it through. boy howdy, it wasnt easy, no sir, no ma'am... but, we did it! and here we are.

and people think thats a goal to aspire to? that sounds fucking awful.. oh boy, you made it to 50 years.. congrats. 50 years of fucking misery.

no thanks. goddamn it hurt to let her go, but goddamn i am now so glad i did.

i suspect your best years are ahead of ye, OP. carpe that diem bro. 

you sound like a real catch

x15x15 wrote:

No, not childish.  It just sound like you're the type that when the going gets tough,  you run... 

I'll reply through you since William decided to exercise the vice of cowardice and delete his point.  William you are a coward.  And I say this as someone who struggles with being a coward in some parts of my life.  I do not always exemplify the virtue of fortitude but I at least don't confuse my cowardice for virtue.  And I say this because I want you to stop being a coward.

William Carson wrote:

…second its no longer easy, im fuckin outta here….

I think you’re on to something here.  

If you whisper that into her ear as you stroke her back after the first time you make love, and she sticks around, you know you have something that will last.  Don’t predict a high success rate though.

x15x15 wrote:

No, not childish.  It just sound like you're the type that when the going gets tough,  you run... 

Its a good excuse to never understand why his typical relationship goes bad every time. Always around for the ups but always running from the downs. 

Dr Logic wrote:

Wife/climbing partner just moved out. LF climbing partner.

Hugs

William Carson wrote:

ive got a little sweetheart now, weve been together going on two years. it hasnt always been easy, but..... LOL. no. just kidding. it absolutely HAS always been easy, and the second its no longer easy, im fuckin outta here. and she knows that. and she has promised me that she'll do the same, if the time comes. life is WAY too short to be shackled to someone you arent happy with.

https://genius.com/Gillian-flynn-gone-girl-cool-girl-monologue-book-annotated

William Carson wrote:

was married 14 years.. she hated my climbing, wasnt into climbing.. i mean she just kinda hated everything about me, and im sure the only reason we stayed together for as long as we did was for fear o the shame of divorce.

but then i fucked around on her and got caught.. she finally had the christian justification for divorce, faultless on her part. on the surface, anyway

ill never marry again, i can tell you that much. marriage is emotional and legal extortion... compulsory love. thats bullshit. the ONLY reason two people should EVER be together is because they are happy and want to be. the moment that isnt the case anymore, its done. fuckin man up .. or woman up.. and do what needs be done.

ive got a little sweetheart now, weve been together going on two years. it hasnt always been easy, but..... LOL. no. just kidding. it absolutely HAS always been easy, and the second its no longer easy, im fuckin outta here. and she knows that. and she has promised me that she'll do the same, if the time comes. life is WAY too short to be shackled to someone you arent happy with.

we all hear some of these old couples that have been together for a billion years.. 30 years, 40, 50+... and they all say the same shit- some variation on: well, it wasnt easy. boy it was NOT easy. we had some hard, hard, goddamn rough times, ill tell ya.. we weathered some storms we really didnt know if we'd make it through. boy howdy, it wasnt easy, no sir, no ma'am... but, we did it! and here we are.

and people think thats a goal to aspire to? that sounds fucking awful.. oh boy, you made it to 50 years.. congrats. 50 years of fucking misery.

no thanks. goddamn it hurt to let her go, but goddamn i am now so glad i did.

i suspect your best years are ahead of ye, OP. carpe that diem bro. 

I’ve never read a response that so desperately screamed “I need therapy”. 

Cool Girl
Pick Me Girl

Same thing.

Women controlling women

Tim Stich wrote:

Cool Girl
Pick Me Girl

Same thing.

Women controlling women

You absolutely misunderstand. The article you posted is about women doing things they enjoy for themselves, which is the opposite of the Gillian Flynn "cool girl" excerpt.

If your point is, don't make assumptions about a woman's motivations, great, we agree. But the situation that William Carson described, where he's only into the relationship if it's fun and easy and he's out of there the second anything is not fun or easy, is not durable. It will last as long as the two of them can pretend they have no needs or problems that the other might find unattractive. 

Jamila W wrote:

Ok but so what?  

Is there something wrong with being in a relationship thats fun and easy and also knowing that it’s not deep enough to be durable? 

Of course there's nothing wrong with it if that's all you want from a relationship. Certainly there were times in my life when that's what I wanted.

It wasn't my whole life though. I do think it's terribly lonely if you have nobody in your life that you can count on to be with you through hard times, and terribly self-centered and immature to never be willing to stick by someone as soon as they are no longer fun. That goes for friendships and family as well as romantic/sexual partners. But others' mileage may vary. Certainly there are folks on MP who will extoll the virtues of an entirely self-centered life. 

Jamila W wrote:

Ok but so what?  

Is there something wrong with being in a relationship thats fun and easy and also knowing that it’s not deep enough to be durable? 

I agree. To expand on that, I think if a relationship is more work than fun, than really, what is the point? When you struggle to enjoy life with another person, or have to work hard for every bit of fun you have... that's not sustainable. A light, fun and easy relationship may actually be the more durable because it's less work, stress and sacrifice. Its easy to become attached but when you find the relationship is more turmoil than joy, that person is probably no longer the person for you. 

Maybe some people like the challenge. 

Ira OMC wrote:

I agree. To expand on that, I think if a relationship is more work than fun, than really, what is the point? When you struggle to enjoy life with another person, or have to work hard for every bit of fun you have... that's not sustainable. A light, fun and easy relationship may actually be the more durable because it's less work, stress and sacrifice. Its easy to become attached but when you find the relationship is more turmoil than joy, that person is probably no longer the person for you. 

Maybe some people like the challenge. 

Your profile says you're 38 years old. Have you never had hardship, struggles, health challenges, or downturns in life that were not so fun? Do you just hide these from anyone you're in a relationship with? Do you expect to get dumped if you share what's real? 

Erroll M wrote:

struggling with this a lot right now, honestly. desperately trying to keep my relationship "fun" and "easy" while dealing with a fuck-awful life situation, but when those hard times peek through & i have to have tough conversations on what i need in terms of communication/really intentional time, i can tell my SO gets so frustrated with me. i feel like i've put him in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' relationship because i know i'm a great partner & work so hard to be, but at the same time, what i need from my relationships right now is so not the type of time/energy/attention he wants to give. i'm not needy, and it sucks being made to feel like i am when i know that saying "it would help a lot if we shifted to a more structured/deliberate type of 'couple time' over the next two months, so i can get time away from the situation & know that i can rely on our time together as something to look forward to" is very...straightforward and totally reasonable.

TFW your only climbing partner won't sit down and plan a crag trip with you because he prefers pick-up-and-go stuff. but that crag trip is also your only 'excuse' to completely disengage from a geographically-bound stressful situation & 12-hr workdays. and he doesn't/can't/won't make the time for 'pick-up-and-go' in the first place. )-:

so....i go kayaking instead. and throw myself into the gym. & try to find other people to go climbing with in a crag-dry area, to no avail.

So this person doesn't/can't/won't work out how to fill that need for you. Are they okay with you finding other people to do structured climbing with? Or do they expect you to do everything according to their needs/wants?

No one can do the whole package. That's what parents are, for tiny little kids. Growing up, that's the main we're supposed to learn.

Being self sufficient, and, sufficient to ourselves.

Then, you add in the others.

It's really simple... 

And a lifetime of hard, working that puzzle out.

Fwiw, my climbing partners have been closer partners than any other relationship beside "mom". 

Including the 40+ years I was with the same guy.

There's no reason all our needs have to be met by one person. If both parties are respectful of each other? Other close relationships can be part of it.

I'm abruptly single, after those 40+ years. All I know for sure, at this point?

I want no strings more binding than friendship. Don't expect me to "do" stuff that's your stuff to do. 

I'm not sure if the few houseplants are on borrowed time, actually.   

Is that selfish?

Don't care. It's my turn, the next 40 years.

Best, Helen

L Kap wrote:

You absolutely misunderstand. The article you posted is about women doing things they enjoy for themselves, which is the opposite of the Gillian Flynn "cool girl" excerpt.

I’m not so sure Tim misunderstood.  The angle of the author was about doing what she enjoyed, but it sure seemed like the common usage of the term was “judgy” from other women.  

As for Gillian, Wtf is She talking about?  She actually sounds perfect for William.   Two fundamentally angry people who expect little from a relationship cuz they never bothered to find better (or give better a chance).  

She’s revealing her own dysfunction and bias here.   In no way is the definition of a “cool girl” that she posits below, anywhere near the definition that I know (or in my circles of guy friends).   But then I don’t hang with gamers, football fanatics, or cheap beer drinkers really.  Maybe she needs to up her game rather than assume her experience is the natural state of things, or that “men” are some monolithic block just because by her own apparent admission, she chose (or chooses) unwisely.  

Quote from Gillian’s piece…

“Men always say that as the defining compliment, don’t they? She’s a cool girl. Being the Cool Girl means I am a hot, brilliant, funny woman who adores football, poker, dirty jokes, and burping, who plays video games, drinks cheap beer, loves threesomes and anal sex, and jams hot dogs and hamburgers into her mouth like she’s hosting the world’s biggest culinary gang bang while somehow maintaining a size 2, because Cool Girls are above all hot. Hot and understanding. Cool Girls never get angry; they only smile in a chagrined, loving manner and let their men do whatever they want. Go ahead, shit on me, I don’t mind, I’m the Cool Girl.”

Only true in very limited and lame circles.  

She cements her jaded outlook with the notion that men who like strong women are either liars or cheaters.  

My recommendation for her is to drop the jaded chip on her shoulder.   She’s in a catch 22.   The men she’s looking for (reading between the lines and admittedly jumping to conclusions) who actually like strong women and women who are confident and comfortable with themselves can smell that she doesn’t appear to actually be a strong woman…or she wouldn’t judge both men and other women so negatively or understand there’s another side to the coin she’s not seeing.  

L Kap wrote:

Your profile says you're 38 years old. Have you never had hardship, struggles, health challenges, or downturns in life that were not so fun? Do you just hide these from anyone you're in a relationship with? Do you expect to get dumped if you share what's real? 

Of course, like everyone, I've had strikes and gutter in life. Sometimes I was fortunate to have a person to help me through, other times I didn't. The point I was trying to make is that  involvement with another person (a relationship) has highs and lows, and if the lows accumulate to be disproportionate to the highs, it's not worth it. Sometimes people struggle on, when simply letting go is a relief for everyone.  

To stay on topic, and bring it back to climbing (or any passion which is fairly absorbing): the relationship and passion must live in coexistence.  Ideally, the the relationship would make the passion all the better. If the passion ends up bringing more happiness to a person than the relationship does, the relationship will falter. If the relationship brings more happiness, then the relationship itself becomes the passion.  At least that's kinda how I see it. 

L Kap wrote:

Your profile says you're 38 years old. Have you never had hardship, struggles, health challenges, or downturns in life that were not so fun?

You're so quick to deal out advice, yet you conflate things with no corelation to how happy you're in a relationship. When I was financially struggling and going through the hardest time in my life, my relationship was also at its happiest.

Erroll M wrote:

i think it's moreso that he won't even communicate with me over that expectation--i know he knows that i'm frustrated being solo & have had a difficult time finding climbing friends. so he'll throw out the idea of a trip or doing a session together climbing-wise to make me feel better, but then he won't follow through because of...convenience, i guess? and then it's sort of left to float when i need really clear/deliberate planning..so i can try to plan for things with other people, too. i want to ask a couple coworkers at my climbing gym to go out bouldering at some point in the next couple weeks, but the 'okay i promise it'll happen at some point' cragging trip ive asked to do together is supposed to be around then. i think i'm just going to schedule with my coworkers instead because i don't expect him to follow through

he's the one who got me into climbing, which i think is contributing to the soft spot. he was super excited to hear about my lead climbing clinic the other night & threw out ideas of things to do together to practice, but when the conversation turned to normal life stuff i wanted to share with him...and he forgot to call me back after needing to step away from the phone. 3rd time this week. so i'm just at a bit of a loss. i feel neglected as both a boyfriend & a climbing partner, and one is exacerbating the other

thanks for the wisdom. i think i'm going to ask that we take climbing off the table in our relationship for right now, or i'm really hitting that crux point of needing to evaluate whether or not this is even a viable relationship for me

Well yeah, if it's a banging your head against the wall sorta thing, and we continue to bang our head against the wall, maybe it's time to think outside of the Prince Charming box, and admit we expect stuff the other can't deliver. If you want to stay with that person? Don't expect that of them. If it's a dealbreaker? Admit that to yourself, and start thinking about it.

All that said?

I ended up staying with a high functioning alcoholic, because I didn't have the balls to quit, and it "wasn't that bad".

Until it was. 

By then? Well, my world had ever so slowly imploded, right along with his, and it slowly got worse until the situation fixed itself rather abruptly.

He died, with a .35 blood alcohol level. It was very quick, he was totally miserable by then, so death spared him years more misery, and, was a huge relief for me.

As to climbing partners?

It can be super tough to get past the "yeah! Sure!" thing with people. You need to be clear that you want it to happen for real, and set a firm time to meet, like next Saturday morning at the gym, for example. Contact the person with a reminder. Text the night before and confirm. Text you're on the way there in the morning "and hey, I'm grabbing coffee. You want?"

Yes it's a ridiculous amount of work. I'm not there, either, I have a single partner, a best friend, I count on. When that doesn't happen, I'm out of luck for outside, and hit the autobelays at the gym. Or just do something else, solo.

In the past, I have gone out of my way to answer when out of towners have posted for partners here. You can take the initiative, post here, at your gym, and hit up people posting for partners. Usually people post what they want, and expect it to fall in their lap. How many ever bother to offer, and follow through with a call?

Anyway, best to ya!

H.