Is JTree a free for all dumpster fire?

While back the NPS & REI launch the ‘find your park’ campaign and visitation in the parks rises 30-70%, meanwhile boat loads of $$ comes in with entrance fees and such. Does Jtree add any parking, camping, or lanes for entry to accommodate? No.

I get the whole preserving the resource thing, but comes a time for reform, IMO. It’s like gun laws, might have been a good idea in the late 1700’s, but there wasn’t 6.5 billion people around then.

And do people not want to make the 45 min drive to the lake bed cause they won’t get those sic insta-like pics? Boy I’m glad I quit social media. 

Whatever happened to the days of finding another spot that wont eventually screw up a decent relationship with the popo? Its as if this gym crowd with their expensive toys never learned how to lay low. I know from experience that if the sheeple visiting the parks see someone doing something questionable they tend to assume its basically allowed. No parking? Looks like a spot to me! Camping only allowed in campgrounds? But that dude is obviously doing it so it must be ok right? I can only imagine what some before and after photos of the bouldering spots near HV would look like. You'll find me camping below the left ski track next time, say hi!

+1 M, those were the good ol days when the Fight Club rule applied to stealthy dirtbaggin, now it’s a spray fest that has dominoed out of control.

Lol, you take left ski track, I’ll be over at my bivy at the base of double cross. 

While back the NPS & REI launch the ‘find your park’ campaign and visitation in the parks rises 30-70%, meanwhile boat loads of $$ comes in with entrance fees and such. Does Jtree add any parking, camping, or lanes for entry to accommodate? No.

Good. Go some where else. Others have proposed that the park service should become the RV Park Service. Fuck, that.

The recent restrictions in Yosemite? I hope they become permanent. They don't need more camping spaces in the busiest parks. They need less camping space. Go. Somewhere. Else.

Teton Climberwrote:

Happens all summer long in the Tetons. In the national park, I blame the park service in large part for failing to properly meet the needs of all Americans. They cater to those with disposable income and the ability to snag reservations months in advanced. They also do very little to address the real needs of last minute campers out for a one-day weekend climb or whatever.

I would say blame Congress for continuously underfunding the NPS, FS, and BLM. At the same time blame it on loving the parks to death. 

Glamping in a $30,000 Outback with a $1500 roof tent is not dirt bagging.

Technically National Parks are entitlements. 

FWIW, I was in Jtree the day after thanksgiving, and we saw a bunch of people illegally set up (roof top tents, chairs etc.) off geology tour road. It was actually pretty shocking, drove right over the shoulder, probably onto crypto. 

About a minute later, we passed a ranger heading their way. So there is definitely some level of enforcement happening.

Gloweringwrote:

Glamping in a $30,000 Outback with a $1500 roof tent is not dirt bagging.

tell this to all of the front range...

JaredGwrote:

Did somebody say entitlement?

They did, and that's the problem. These folks are entitled to access public land. They're the public and it's their land. So are you and I, that's how it works. Feeling entitled to tell people not to go to their own land so it looks nicer in pictures, now that's entitlement. 

Joshua Tree had plenty of camping in the 70’s…. In the 80 it got a little more crowded- but the Rangers (a National monument at the time) and climbers worked it out, they allowed stacked camping at the back of  HVCG- as long as climbers did not go looking for help from them to get your car out from the stack. We all left the car keys on the front tire. The 80’s rolled into the 90’s and it became a National Park. Not too much changed except the Rangers became armed thugs and really hated being assigned to Joshua Tree- you could tell, one time walked into my site with guns drawn and ready!
After the 1999 New Years and all the shenanigans that went on it became an all out war. The reservation system really fails- IMHO- because of the no shows and the lack of a management plan to account for that. So we get the mess we have today.
I place the blame for the complete failure of the camping, or rather lack of, squarely on the NPS.
They manage nothing and early on removed some sites from use. The lack of money is a ruse they use to get more. They would have plenty of money if they worked like a private company. One Ranger told me that it cost 350,000 to build a two stall pit pit toilet!
They need to add at a minimum 100 sites- out by Jumbo and that area.

The blame for the crappy situation is the NPS. 

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Good. Go some where else. Others have proposed that the park service should become the RV Park Service. Fuck, that.

The recent restrictions in Yosemite? I hope they become permanent. They don't need more camping spaces in the busiest parks. They need less camping space. Go. Somewhere. Else.

So you’d rather see more of this vs. accommodating the rise in #’s? The Valley is a tough one cause it’s a ditch. But jtree has lots of desert space perfect for improvements. Replant the trees and forget about the soil. It’s already ruined in a lot of places from too much foot traffic.

And you’re preaching to the choir, I’ve already gone somewhere else. Are the n00bs stepping out of the gym going to listen to you? No. But tell. That. To. Them. Hope I didn’t offend you with the gun law comparison. 

Maybe Snyder will focus his attention on these illegal campers instead of bolts.

ZT Gwrote:

Such a funny statement. WE WORK. It’s interesting because all the dirtbags I’ve traveled or climbed with work really hard when they’re not climbing to pay for that van, the endless need for gear, and gas. Gotta pay to play. 

Yeah, but…..like, what do you do for work? 

Trust funds don’t count and tech/programming jobs shouldn’t count but I’ll allow it.

For real though. I am definitely jealous of those who live in vans that cost as much as a house…mostly because I am far too old to get a job that would allow me to make enough money AND utilize the van. Still looking though lol

Go Back to Super Topowrote:

tech/programming jobs shouldn’t count but I’ll allow it.

Why?

AV laid it out pretty well. The majority of "dirtbags" in my circle (though none will refer to themselves as that, but they live out of vehicles full time) work wildland fire, construction, arborist work or some kind of high angle job, or guiding/instruction of some kind. All are pretty undeniably "real work". A couple have tech jobs and one or two are full time photographers/media people. 

I think people who desire to own vans and Subaru’s with rooftop tents but are curious about how to afford it, often neglect certain types of jobs. Or it’s too often assumed people who have those things are trust fund babies. Being a skilled tradesman can easily earn you well into the six figures. And those are jobs that don’t require degrees or any prior training. While labor intensive, and(depending on the trade) require a fair amount of intelligence, they can be rather lucrative and should definitely be considered a viable option for those who complain about not having a trust fund, so they can’t own a sprinter van and clutter up roadsides. 

Matthew Tangemanwrote:

Why?

AV laid it out pretty well. The majority of "dirtbags" in my circle (though none will refer to themselves as that, but they live out of vehicles full time) work wildland fire, construction, arborist work or some kind of high angle job, or guiding/instruction of some kind. All are pretty undeniably "real work". A couple have tech jobs and one or two are full time photographers/media people. 

‘Twas but a joke Matthew. Those are all undeniably real work, yes and I don’t consider van lifers to be “dirtbags”.  The running joke amongst many that do not have vans is that van lifers are either trust fund babies or work in the tech industry. Sorry if that offends you…you must work in the tech industry or have a trust fund (another joke). 

Those that think van lifers are scum  of the earth, none of you own a house right? 

Nathan Bilthuiswrote:

I think people who desire to own vans and Subaru’s with rooftop tents but are curious about how to afford it, often neglect certain types of jobs. Or it’s too often assumed people who have those things are trust fund babies. Being a skilled tradesman can easily earn you well into the six figures. And those are jobs that don’t require degrees or any prior training. While labor intensive, and(depending on the trade) require a fair amount of intelligence, they can be rather lucrative and should definitely be considered a viable option for those who complain about not having a trust fund, so they can’t own a sprinter van and clutter up roadsides. 

I’m not so sure about this. I don’t know what you do for a living Nathan, but skilled trades usually require training and/or apprenticeship followed by certification and or licensure. Even then, you put in your time as a journeyman. And yes, you can make well into the six figures, but that requires a lot of work, and probably not enough time to live on the road in your $100k 4x4 Sprinter. 

Frank Steinwrote:

I’m not so sure about this. I don’t know what you do for a living Nathan, but skilled trades usually require training and/or apprenticeship followed by certification and or licensure. Even then, you put in your time as a journeyman. And yes, you can make well into the six figures, but that requires a lot of work, and probably not enough time to live on the road in your $100k 4x4 Sprinter. 

Absolutely you have to go through an apprenticeship. But that requires zero prior training to get in. That’s what it’s for, to train you. And to get paid while doing it. And if you’re in a trade that require any sort of license, that’s part of it. It’s not financially up to you. While most first year apprentice’s won’t be making six figures, many can get close. But working constantly. Once you’re making journeyman wages, you can work heavily for six months, and easily take the other six off. Or configure your months on and off however you choose. Many that I work with do just that. Work hard while you are working, but then play hard while you’re not. I’m not trying to be confrontational, I’m simply stating it’s possible because I’ve done it. And know many others who do as well.

Edit: It should also be noted if you hold a union card there’s no one that’s even allowed to tell you what time you can or can’t take off. I can take any amount off, any time I want. The caveat being, you’re obviously not getting paid. A common phrase when referring to vacations in my trade is, “whatever you can afford”.