Boots for overnight winter alpine

I'm looking to replace my Nepal Evos, as they've never really been warm enough, and this year I'm going to be getting into overnight winter alpinism and mountaineering, including both technical climbing and snowy ridges. Trips ranging from 1-2 nights. Japanese mountains that don't peak much higher than 3000 meters, temperatures getting as low as -20 C (~0 F), winters are relatively dry but can have lots of fresh powder. Camps will usually be closer to 2000m.

I've mostly been looking at supergaiters (Phantom Tech, G5, etc.), but I am wondering if I should be considering double boots (G2 SM, Phantom 6000?) for the extra warmth and overnight drying capability. It seems like they might be overkill for 3000m, and might make the technical and ice climbing trips less fun, but I don't know if the supergaiters will do the trick for overnights in the snow.

Are double boots the standard for overnights in winter conditions? Or do people also use singles and supergaiters for these kinds of trips/conditions?

Thanks as always for the input.

If you can get used to wearing a vapor barrier liner (VBL) it will prevent the inside of your boots from becoming saturated with sweat, in-turn, keeping your feet warmer as your sock, the base insulating layer for your feet, stays bone dry.  The drier your boots and socks are, the warmer your feet will be.  If you choose not to sleep with your single boots, they'll still be cold in the morning, but not icy and down-right miserable as if they were frozen from sweat.

AlpineIcewrote:

If you can get used to wearing a vapor barrier liner (VBL) 

Alpine gumbie here. Would you use this as your first layer then socks and then the boots? 

Irreverent Bastardwrote:

Alpine gumbie here. Would you use this as your first layer then socks and then the boots? 

https://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/vbl_socks

Whatever you choose for boots, it is so nice to have camp booties in camp to let your feet rest and facilitate drying. You can sleep with them too. Everyone I saw around camps in Denali had booties.

Depends how many nights out you're talking. If just one or two I would use a super gaiter boot. For longer or colder I would use double boots. I use G2SMs which seem like they would be good with your drier powder snow, but ultimately its what fits your foot.

Irreverent Bastardwrote:

Alpine gumbie here. Would you use this as your first layer then socks and then the boots? 

Ideally, and what I've done in the past is a sock liner, then the VBL, then your normal sock.  Some people don't wear the sock liner, but, to me, it's a bit more comfortable than just having exposed skin contact with the VBL.  The VBL is obviously seam-sealed and waterproof, so this approach keeps your outer layer sock and boots bone dry.  Your feet will become pretty hot and sweaty, but after a while, they adapt to the environment and, for the most part, pretty much stop sweating.  You have to be sure to allow your feet to breath "fresh air" while at camp/bivy to avoid trench foot.  This is simply done my removing the VBL for the night.

Jonathan Swrote:

Whatever you choose for boots, it is so nice to have camp booties in camp to let your feet rest and facilitate drying. You can sleep with them too. Everyone I saw around camps in Denali had booties.

Something like this, right? I’ve been strongly considering picking up a pair.

AaronJwrote:

Something like this, right? I’ve been strongly considering picking up a pair.

Yes. I went with the 40 Below model myself.

Jonathan Swrote:

Whatever you choose for boots, it is so nice to have camp booties in camp to let your feet rest and facilitate drying. You can sleep with them too. Everyone I saw around camps in Denali had booties.

Pretty off topic but for something like Denali, wearing liners inside over boots does pretty well and makes dual use of items already on hand. Just another option. 

6000 meter boots are getting less heavy and clunky.  

https://www.mammut.com/us/en/products/3010-01060/nordwand-6000-high

diepjwrote:

Pretty off topic but for something like Denali, wearing liners inside over boots does pretty well and makes dual use of items already on hand. Just another option. 

True, I considered this option, but I didn't go with overboots and hardly saw them on the mountain (this year, 2021). Most everyone has high-tech super-gaiter boots nowadays and are not using overboots anymore. Not too far off-topic if you want to buy one pair of boots now that can be used for bigger trips later.

The Arcteryx Acrux AR might be a good compromise. They’re the lightest double boot you can get.

John Gwrote:

The Arcteryx Acrux AR might be a good compromise. They’re the lightest double boot you can get.

Just try them on first. They are very narrow. I loved these boots but they just did not fit my feet at all.

Sam Beeduhlwrote:

Just try them on first. They are very narrow. I loved these boots but they just did not fit my feet at all.

Yeah, from everything I've heard there's no chance those things are going on my feet. 

Late to the party so I'm guessing you probably already bought your boots, but don't discount the Acrux. I have super wide feet in the forefoot, so typically have to buy the widest footwear I can find (think 102mm+ last ski boots), but my feet are narrow in the arch and heel and they fit the Arc'teryx boots perfectly. Not too narrow even for me in the foot, but really minimize heel slippage which is an issue with other wide boots I've tried.

you say your nepal evos have never really been warm enough?   in that case, you'd best be looking at double boots.

-Haireball

Johan Jwrote:

Late to the party so I'm guessing you probably already bought your boots, but don't discount the Acrux. I have super wide feet in the forefoot, so typically have to buy the widest footwear I can find (think 102mm+ last ski boots), but my feet are narrow in the arch and heel and they fit the Arc'teryx boots perfectly. Not too narrow even for me in the foot, but really minimize heel slippage which is an issue with other wide boots I've tried.

I'm the same and wore Acrux all winter. Took out the midsole and that helped with volume. Then I added a very thin Odor Eaters midsole. After my last long approach I think I could put the original insole back in, or maybe something better.

To me this means it breaks in and fits better. Definitely climbs well - very sensitive for a double boot.

However, the toe rand peels off from kicking steps or walking in snow. Kind of lame and really surprising.

You can use oven bags as vapor barriers too. I use them on every single outing. Take a set for each day and re-use the old ones for pack-out bags.