Overated Heroes of Climbing History

As a counterpart to the Unsung Heroes thread:

Who are the figures in climbing history that you think are overrated? For whom their level of fame and veneration exceed their actual contribution? Or otherwise get more attention than they deserve?

John Long. He's pompous and took credit for a lot of "FA's" that Lynn actually freed.

Aaron ralston. Poor decision making turned him famous

almostrad wrote:

John Long. 

Agree with John Long.

I might get crucified for this, but I think that Lynn Hill is kind of overrated also. There is no doubt that she is an amazing athlete that broke significant ground for women in climbing and in 80s-90s climbing generally. BUT - I think the level of attention directed toward her accomplishments, to the point of exclusion of her contemporaries, is unbalanced. When we talk about female climbers of that era, it seems like 95% of the time it is about Lynn. But Bobbi, Robyn, etc. also deserve a slice of the climbing history pie. Similar with El Cap - people sometimes talk about Lynn on the Nose as opening the era of El Cap free climbing, and it seems like the Skinner/Piana ascent of the Salathe 5 years prior gets swept under the rug a bit.

More broadly - can we just say that the whole California Stonemasters cohort is overrated? They did some great climbing, but the amount of space they take up in the climbing history consciousness, to this day, is a bit out of whack. Other regions and other eras deserve a slice of the pie also.

These are funny. Nobody mentioned how Long ripped off Jeff Long's (no relation) screenplay for Cliffhanger.

But who among us do not have feet of clay?

As a young climber I had admired a British climber for a couple of years before sharing a site with him in Camp IV. He got "pissed" (means drunk to them) and started punching his girlfriend. (Put him out with a scissor lock.)

One guy who I had put up some great routes with had a wife whose comments suggested another detestable abuse. Sure enough, when I talked with him about it he actually said that there was no such thing as marital rape. 

I stopped climbing with him.

I bet that if you looked into it, many heroes are not really that heroic.

That said,........... how about the guy known for a movie stunt that thinks he was one of the world's greatest climbers? Same guy who abandoned Armondo Menocal, the world's nicest guy, out in the desert. Same guy who abandoned RD up in the mountains in winter. Same guy who abandoned 3 others on Baffin making them hike out with ridiculous loads because, somehow, none of the hardware was his (seems to be a common theme here). Same guy who leaves a 25 cent tip for a dinner for four where somebody ran out of water for a few minutes.

(small snicker)

Just scratch a hero and you'll find a human.

Fuck your heroes. 

Or said more intellectually, If you have a hero, look again: you have diminished yourself in some way.

Alex Honnold.
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There is no denying his solo ascents and the Fitz Roy traverse are spectacular. His fame and charismatic personality certainly help with getting attention beyond the climbing community. I appreciate that he uses his fame for the Honnold Foundation to help improve the lives of others. Alex openly talks about his environmental perspectives that may inspire others to take similar actions.

However, contrary to the general public believes he is the best climber in the world.  The attention he gains from sponsors and the public undermines other bold solos completed by others (e.g., Brad Gobright, Marc-Andre Leclrec, Jim Reynolds, and I know I'm missing many others).

John Long. He's pompous and took credit for a lot of "FA's" that Lynn actually freed.

I have my differences with Largo, but which FA’s?

I can’t think of any, and I’ve known both of them since Day 1 basically

Gumby, seriously? Alex Honnold? The day he soloed Moonlight I was rope soloing less than a mile away. Wish I had known to watch.

And when does what the general public think undermine bold solos. Hell, I bet there have been bold solos that nobody else knows about.

I guess anybody who is successful at anything is going to field some hate.

almostrad wrote:

John Long. He's pompous and took credit for a lot of "FA's" that Lynn actually freed.

Do tell, exactly what routes did he steal credit for that Lynn did first?

J T wrote:

This is not to take away anything from his soloing because he is without a doubt one of, if not, the greatest solo-er. I can count a half a dozen dudes from the local gym who can do everything Honnold can aside from soloing. He’s one dimensional as a professional/”elite” climber which is why I think he’s a bit overrated. 

Reinhold Messner was never at the cutting edge of bouldering or sport climbing.  There are a dozen dudes at JT's local gym who can do everything Messner could do aside from high altitude alpinism.  He was really one dimensional as an "elite" climber too, I guess.

J T wrote:

Aside from his soloing, Honnold will be the first to tell you he’s nothing special. He climbs low to mid 14 sport lines routes and, what, V13 boulders? The dude is worth millions of dollars solely for his soloing.

This is not to take away anything from his soloing because he is without a doubt one of, if not, the greatest solo-er. I can count a half a dozen dudes from the local gym who can do everything Honnold can aside from soloing. He’s one dimensional as a professional/”elite” climber which is why I think he’s a bit overrated. 

Well, he has climbed 9a, which most would consider elite. But then again, it looks like you climb in Utah, where toddlers and grandmothers warm up on 8a, and real sport climbing starts at 9a. 

To be fair Messsner predates bouldering and sport climbing but he was an alright rock climber in his day before he lost all his toes.

What up with rating climbers though? It’s like ratings on climbs - they don’t rally capture the whole experience. Something something John Sherman Enormocast quote. 

Sure Honnold soloed El Cap, Moonlight, Half Dome, Rostrum, Astroman, and countless other big walls, did the Fitz Traverse and climbs 9a and donates loads to charity.

But what has he done lately? Lol

Wow! So much hate for Largo. 

John was a top notch climber in his time and, along with many of his contemporaries, had vision about pushing free climbing.  But, perhaps just as (or more significantly) he was one of the first US climber's to put pen to paper to try to describe the rock climbing experience (even if in hyperbolic terms at times).  

I've never really understood the need to tear others down. Are people that insecure about their own lives?

This thread brings to mind several climbers. But do I really want to badmouth anyone? Nah.

As Long Ranger said, Messner predated 'sport climbing' but was rock climbing at the top free climbing level for his day--and on long, very runout routes in the Dolomites, not just on short 'practice crags'. I recall that there is at least one of his Dolomite routes from that era that 20+ years later stopped the first generations of sport climbers cold for a number of years. It appears that he also did a good amount of bouldering--but it just wasn't recognized as a 'climbing discipline' in Italy/Tyrol in the '60s---only 'training'.

Seems like this topic went from overrated to 'I dont like Person X, so I wanna vent...' 

127 hours guy, yea over rated ... 

but Alex? Lynn? really? your reasons can't be "i wish other people got more of the spotlight" ... 

People like Warren Harding are at the top of my list ... Overrated 

Ron Olevsky.

William K wrote:

Reinhold Messner was never at the cutting edge of bouldering or sport climbing.  There are a dozen dudes at JT's local gym who can do everything Messner could do aside from high altitude alpinism.  He was really one dimensional as an "elite" climber too, I guess.

Reinhold Messner did the vast majority of his notable climbing before the grade 5.14 even existed or bouldering had crashpads so I’m not quite sure what your point is about cutting edge bouldering/sport climbing. Messner was a revolutionary alipinist just as Honnold is a revolutionary soloist. The difference is that people view Honnold slightly differently based on the publicity he’s received in today’s media heavy world. Both were/are elite (mostly) one dimensional climbers in my eyes. 

I will say that I, ignorantly, forgot about Honnold‘s accomplishments in Antarctica and Patagonia. I still view him more as an all around badass and all-rounder than I do him as an elite rock climber. Completely subjective, yes, but that’s why I see Honnold as overrated. 

P.S. I never compared any local crushers to Messner’s accomplishments. Just a half dozen to Honnold‘s rock climbing accomplishments, with the exception of soloing   

Glowering wrote:

This thread brings to mind several climbers. But do I really want to badmouth anyone? Nah.

You’re doing it wrong.

But for real, I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. I think you can call someone is overrated without bad mouthing them. Like I can think Michael Jordan is overrated but still the greatest of all time.