Is the world's best climber a dodgy belayer? ADAM!!!

soft crux wrote:

You should spend a few moments trying to understand that ropes, belay devices, and the laws of physics don't care about climbing grades.

I think he understands these risks and does it anyway. I guess that is what I’m taking issue with in this thread. 

Mariah Rox wrote:

^this is begging to be a meme

You just inspired me to make my very first contribution to the Meme forum page. Thanks!

Like spelling?

Weston S wrote:

Imo, this thread is about feeling superior to the world’s greatest climber more than it is about safety.

The thread is a warning that it is unsafe to project belaying skills onto a good or experienced climber. Sometimes they correlate, oftentimes not. Adam illustrates a spectacular disconnect.

The man also ties in with a bowline and skips bolts. More dangerous, yes. Necessary? I’m not sure, because I’m not a 5.15 climber. I’ll let him figure that out.

Those things are a climber's choice and he alone pays the consequences. However, if he belays poorly his climber pays the price. He's not being responsible and is doing it in front of a rolling camera, then uploading it.

10/10 would whip with Ondra belaying. 

MP crowd waiting for the chance to be belayed by Ondra

https://youtu.be/8-5yuVuDFzU&t=5m9s

Magnus Mitbø's cameraman seems to find Adam's belay technique interesting as well

Seth Sawant wrote:

https://youtu.be/8-5yuVuDFzU&t=5m9s

Magnus Mitbø's cameraman seems to find Adam's belay technique interesting as well

Lol just watched the video, knew someone would point it out.

But does Ondra use a PAS?

abandon moderation wrote:

Next up: OMG this pro climber rappelled instead of lowering. Doesn't he know in 2021 the only safe way to get down from a single pitch is to lower?

Everyone teaches gumbies the single safest way to do anything so that one day, they too, can post about it on mountain project.

Not a good comparison. Rappel / lower doesn't matter as long as either is done correctly, it's just that rappelling has higher chance of doing incorrectly. Do it right and you're fine either way.

Belaying incorrectly is just lazy and stupid. In the photo above the climber is effectively soloing. Maybe the climber knows it, maybe they don't. These guys don't often fall on easier terrain so no one has been hurt yet, but it will happen someday and when it does there will be an MP thread full of fanbois making excuses.

abandon moderation wrote:

Next up: OMG this pro climber rappelled instead of lowering. Doesn't he know in 2021 the only safe way to get down from a single pitch is to lower?

Everyone teaches gumbies the single safest way to do anything so that one day, they too, can post about it on mountain project.

+1 for what soft crux said, not to mention that Petzl explicitly states that using a GriGri this way is a failure mode and is not recommend. You don't see BD/Petzl/etc. telling you not to rappel off a single pitch climb (nor should they).

From my observation around here in Colorado, some of the best climbers are the worst belayers. The wrap your right hand around the device defeating the cam with three or four fingers and yank out slack to the leader with the other hand seems the most common method. If the belayer is paying close attention they then pull their right hand off the device and grab the rope which is why people don’t get dropped all the time. It’s still completely unsafe belay technique no matter what grade you climb. Test that method out in the gym with someone’s hopping off from the first clip without removing your hand from clamping the device open and see how much it fails for yourself.  

I remember my partner watching in horror at **multiple transgressions** committed by a pro when we were at Smith Rocks.

 Robyn Erbesfeld was at a rest on about 1/2 way up Darkness at Noon.  Didier casually stepped on the rope (sans ropebag mind you) taking brake hand off, reached into his pack and lit up a cigarette...mostly likely a gauloises.

This story predates Gri-Gris and even ATCs...Didier had her on a figure 8 belay device...euro style...

My buddy was completely shocked and couldn't stop jabbering about everything "wrong" they were doing. But after he dropped me off back home I ordered some J-rat lycra tights (purple leopard spots to be precise) and walked over to the 7-11 for a pack of smokes...

J W wrote:

It would be helpful if someone were to document the surfeit of casualties Adam, et al., have left in their collective wake for those of us bemused, but ultimately unconvinced, by the hand wringing here.

Who is it these professional climbers are dropping as a result of improper belay technique? 

The conversation is all in fun. Apologies if we touched a nerve.

Of course we all know that pros can't drop anyone. They're pros!

J W wrote:

It would be helpful if someone were to document the surfeit of casualties Adam, et al., have left in their collective wake for those of us bemused, but ultimately unconvinced, by the hand wringing here.

Who is it these professional climbers are dropping as a result of improper belay technique? 

Yes, he's hasn't dropped anyone and I hope he never does. But why belay in a way that in my opinion is more dangerous and doesn't have any advantage to doing it the "right" way? You can feed slack just as fast with the finger hook method as you can gripping the whole device with no hand on the brake, so why not just switch to that method? A lot of things pros do in climbing are considered dangerous compared to the standard operating procedure (skipping bolts, simul-climbing, etc.) but there's usually some benefit to doing it; if you drive your car without the seatbelt buckled, what's your justification for that other than you can't be bothered to change your habits? 

Also, anyone is entitled to use any belay method they want if their climber is cool with it and you're not actively broadcasting it to the world, hip belay away. It's different when you post videos on YouTube that hundreds of thousands of people will watch and will then think that's a good way to lead belay with a GriGri because Adam Ondra does it (which, compared to the recommended method, it's not, unless there's some upside to using that technique that I'm not seeing).

J W wrote:

Who is it these professional climbers are dropping as a result of improper belay technique? 

J W wrote:

No doubt, this will strike many of you as callous, but one minor mangled Magnus is a minuscule price to pay for belaying freedom.

I have no comment on the topic at hand, but that is some beautiful alliteration, so you have my vote.

Is the world's best climber a dodgy belayer?

Since the world's best climber is not Adam, the answer is probably no.

Teton Climber wrote:

Is the world's best climber a dodgy belayer?

Since the world's best climber is not Adam, the answer is probably no.

And just who is?

Christopher Smith wrote:

And just who is?

The person who sent the highest number of course!