Easy Daisy vs FiFi vs Petzl Evolv Adjust

After 20 years of trad climbing I finally have decided to take on a bigger aid climb like Moon Light Buttress in Zion or the Original Route in Red Rocks.  I have plenty of experience with french free and yarding on gear, but nothing serious like a C1-C3 climb.  I know, the obligatory, I'll probably kill myself.  This fall and winter I am planning on building my aid skills with the goal of one of these routes in the spring.  As such, I have been looking at information on the easy daisy, fifi's and Petzl Evolv Adjust and wonder what the pros and cons of each.  Which one should I commit to learning with?

Following this for obvious reasons 

I started using one etrier and one daisy per side. Less clutter. And fifi, of course. I could clip the second aider to the one clipped to the piece. 

Just be sure once you step off a piece, unclip anything static from it - like your daisies whatever form they take. You want to fall on the lead rope, not a static line.

Learn how to climb in your aiders without daisies. You’ll be faster and experience far less cluster. 

some of the most classic free routes in some of the softest stone around. Giver!

Mark Hudonwrote:

Learn how to climb in your aiders without daisies. You’ll be faster and experience far less cluster.

Cluster will be way down after you drop one   

Keith Boonewrote:

After 20 years of trad climbing I finally have decided to take on a bigger aid climb like Moon Light Buttress in Zion or the Original Route in Red Rocks.  I have plenty of experience with french free and yarding on gear, but nothing serious like a C1-C3 climb.  I know, the obligatory, I'll probably kill myself.  This fall and winter I am planning on building my aid skills with the goal of one of these routes in the spring.  As such, I have been looking at information on the easy daisy, fifi's and Petzl Evolv Adjust and wonder what the pros and cons of each.  Which one should I commit to learning with?

You've been trad climbing 20 years...and want to aid Moonlight? 

Where's the challenge or growth opportunity here for you? You could go aid 10 splitter finger cracks in the Creek if you're just looking to piss people off who are stuck in line behind you wanting to do a classic moderate free climb. 

Yeah, I'll say it again: Moonlight is a moderate free climb. Moonlight was soloed over a decade ago, and I would suggest that perfectly protected mid 5.12 finger cracks do not even represent the upper quartile of climbing ability in 2021. It's onsighted/flashed regularly. 

Just so no aid climbers are offended, I'll also make the statement that nobody should be taking avoidable whippers on Moonlight in a free bid. Just put in a cam and take on it if you're close to falling. If you need to hang more than 4-5x times on any given pitch, you should come back when you're more fit. I think bringing a 20 foot cheater stick and placing 5 times per pitch is also an acceptable strategy if you're an aid climber hellbent on doing Moonlight. At least you can then make the argument you're having the exact same impact on the route as a relatively incompetent free climber.

From one average climber to another, my advice is to go do Touchstone, Prodigal Sun, Sheer Lunacy, or Lunar X if you're looking to develop wall skills and not contribute to the degradation of the most iconic desert free climb in the country. Good luck and have fun on your journey!

Seriously buy 1 of each.  I love Adjustable daisies, my buddy loves his Evolv adjust (after swapping in a thinner cord).  Keeping a very short fifi on is really nice.  

I climb w 2 Adjustables (and an alfifi if it's going to be dicier).  If you end up not liking any of the 3 you can resell them for a few bucks less, and be confident in your system.  

You can pm me for more specifics if you want, as well as some fun aid choices in Vegas. 

Matt Miccioliwrote:

You've been trad climbing 20 years...and want to aid Moonlight? 

Where's the challenge or growth opportunity here for you? You could go aid 10 splitter finger cracks in the Creek if you're just looking to piss people off who are stuck in line behind you wanting to do a classic moderate free climb. 

Yeah, I'll say it again: Moonlight is a moderate free climb. Moonlight was soloed over a decade ago, and I would suggest that perfectly protected mid 5.12 finger cracks do not even represent the upper quartile of climbing ability in 2021. It's onsighted/flashed regularly. 

Just so no aid climbers are offended, I'll also make the statement that nobody should be taking avoidable whippers on Moonlight in a free bid. Just put in a cam and take on it if you're close to falling. If you need to hang more than 4-5x times on any given pitch, you should come back when you're more fit. I think bringing a 20 foot cheater stick and placing 5 times per pitch is also an acceptable strategy if you're an aid climber hellbent on doing Moonlight. At least you can then make the argument you're having the exact same impact on the route as a relatively incompetent free climber.

From one average climber to another, my advice is to go do Touchstone, Prodigal Sun, Sheer Lunacy, or Lunar X if you're looking to develop wall skills and not contribute to the degradation of the most iconic desert free climb in the country. Good luck and have fun on your journey!

Unfortunately I have hit that age where years of shoulder abuse won't let me climb any harder than 5.11 now.   In my 20's and 30's, yeah, I would have loved to free climb it, but now a days that's not in my cards.

Mark Hudonwrote:

Learn how to climb in your aiders without daisies. You’ll be faster and experience far less cluster. 

I might try this.  Straight Shooter in Red Rocks is a common route to practice aid climbing.  Ill give it a go without the daisies and see how efficient we are.  The goal is to be fast enough to do Moon Light without the bivy.

Like others have said I’d recommend doing a different climb. Moonlight buttress is more of a free climb nowadays. Remember aid climbing grades are about fall potential, not necessarily difficulty. If you have been trad climbing for 20 years you should be able to easily do any of the other classic aid climbs without having to worry about holding up free climbing parties while you fiddle with gear. Unless your doing a steep overhanging route learn to climb without daisies as mark said. 

I second Marks leashless climbing.   Daisies are for jugging.   Haha. 

Skot Richardswrote:

I second Marks leashless climbing.   Daisies are for jugging.   Haha. 

I switched to “Daisyless” this year and have now switched back.. I’ll point out two reasons why:

1) this is operator error- and shows bad technique on my part.. but I found the habit hard to break. I’d often forget to clip in to my piece before moving on to the next. One situation highlighted why this is bad.. I moved from a bolt to a hook, then was able to reach up to a fixed nut. I just clipped my aider in to the nut. I then placed what looked like a decent cam- rushed on to it and it pulled.. I fell, and at the time one foot was still in the aider clipped to the nut- but the rope wasn’t clipped to it.. this flipped me upside down, and my fall was caught on the bolt.. long upside down fall.. one aider still hanging from the nut.. Stupid and my fault.. don’t do what I did!!!

2) I took a big fall and ripped a bunch of pieces.. as I hung there at the bottom of the rope I watched My aider with a Beak clipped to it float down to the talus.. 

luckily I had brought a spare Aider..

Quinn Hatfieldwrote:

I switched to “Daisyless” this year and have now switched back.. I’ll point out two reasons why:

1) this is operator error- and shows bad technique on my part.. but I found the habit hard to break. I’d often forget to clip in to my piece before moving on to the next. One situation highlighted why this is bad.. I moved from a bolt to a hook, then was able to reach up to a fixed nut. I just clipped my aider in to the nut. I then placed what looked like a decent cam- rushed on to it and it pulled.. I fell, and at the time one foot was still in the aider clipped to the nut- but the rope wasn’t clipped to it.. this flipped me upside down, and my fall was caught on the bolt.. long upside down fall.. one aider still hanging from the nut.. Stupid and my fault.. don’t do what I did!!!

2) I took a big fall and ripped a bunch of pieces.. as I hung there at the bottom of the rope I watched My aider with a Beak clipped to it float down to the talus.. 

luckily I had brought a spare Aider..

Your first “reason” has nothing to do with daisies. Your second “reason” solves an “if this happens, then that might happen” type of problem . I don’t worry about those types of senarios.

You’re dealing with your daisy cluster every singe move for the entire route. You’ve done how many walls and have dropped how many aiders?

Mark Hudonwrote:

You’re dealing with your daisy cluster every singe move for the entire route. You’ve done how many walls and have dropped how many aiders?

You're assuming that the daisy cluster is something to deal with. I haven't found the daisy connection to my ladders to be difficult or even an issue to deal with at all except on lower angle terrain where I don't bother with daisies or fifis anyways. 

Fail Fallingwrote:

You're assuming that the daisy cluster is something to deal with. I haven't found the daisy connection to my ladders to be difficult or even an issue to deal with at all except on lower angle terrain where I don't bother with daisies or fifis anyways. 

If you don’t use daisies or Fifis on lower angle terrain then how do you know it’s an issue to deal with!!!!?????  Boom!!!  Haha.  

Skot Richardswrote:

If you don’t use daisies or Fifis on lower angle terrain then how do you know it’s an issue to deal with!!!!?????  Boom!!!  Haha.  

Ummmm because it is an issue (of the daisy getting in the way of the steps on the ladder) which is why I don't use them in that situation since there's no benefit in use to offset the issue. 

Also taxation is theft and only Biden would use daisies on slab   

Fail Fallingwrote:

Ummmm because it is an issue (of the daisy getting in the way of the steps on the ladder) which is why I don't use them in that situation since there's no benefit in use to offset the issue. 

Also taxation is theft and only Biden would use daisies on slab   

Taxation is definitely theft & Biden would definitely use daisies on slab!!  He’d also put biners on the top of his juggs!!   Haha.   

Skot Richardswrote:

Taxation is definitely theft & Biden would definitely use daisies on slab!!  He’d also put biners on the top of his juggs!!   Haha.   

Fail Fallingwrote:

Hell yes!!!   I love it!!   

who the fugg puts lockers as the capture biner? Buncha gumbies around here, these yahoos don't seem to know anything about aid...

(serious part, the evolv adjust is the shiznit - camp Dyon biners for the connection are even more the shiznit)