Is Boulder, CO an anomaly?

caughtinside wrote:

There is a reason - those guys only live there part time.  

Lots of climbers live there year round. I spent a summer there for work and it's honestly not that bad. You can climb reasonably comfortably through the summer at Charleston, and Vegas is closer to many portions of the High Sierra than Oakland is.

I don't like Vegas itself, but its more the sprawling car-centric suburbia that puts me off (i.e. the way Vegas is like much of middle America), than the desert heat or the other uniquely Vegas attributes. I'd still consider living there if the circumstances were right.

Nick Henscheid wrote:

Honestly, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Vegas.  There's a reason Honnold & Siegrist live there, among many others. 

Has Honnold talked about his choice of moving to Vegas? I would think, giving that he talks about environmental issues so much that Vegas would be an interesting choice, as it's reliant on the Hoover Dam for booth electricity and water. Dams aren't the greatest long-term thing to have on a river. Also it's not looking so great for how much water is there,

curt86iroc wrote:

i lived in boulder. when it got too expensive, i moved to golden. when golden got just as expensive as boulder was, i moved to lakewood. now my house is easily worth twice what i paid for it 6 years ago and i cringe when i think of people trying to afford living in this area now. this is out of control.

western slope is looking better and better every day...

Western slope is terrible. Bad schools. Bad roads. Bad air. Bad food. We’re full. Stay over there. 

Long Ranger wrote:

Has Honnold talked about his choice of moving to Vegas? I would think, giving that he talks about environmental issues so much that Vegas would be an interesting choice, as it's reliant on the Hoover Dam for booth electricity and water. Dams aren't the greatest long-term thing to have on a river. Also it's not looking so great for how much water is there,

He has talked about it in the context of being a spectacular place to be a climber (various podcasts and interviews).   You have thousands of routes 5.5-5.15 within a 30min-2 hour drive and tens of thousands within a 6 hour drive. 

Long Ranger wrote:

Has Honnold talked about his choice of moving to Vegas? I would think, giving that he talks about environmental issues so much that Vegas would be an interesting choice, as it's reliant on the Hoover Dam for booth electricity and water. Dams aren't the greatest long-term thing to have on a river. Also it's not looking so great for how much water is there,

People get way too hung up on the water issue with Vegas ("There shouldn't be a city in the desert, there's no water!").  Vegas is not the reason Lake Mead is low. Nevada is only allocated ~2% of Colorado Basin water, and they use less than their allocation. Urban indoor water use is basically irrelevant to large-scale water supply (lawns and golf courses are still bad though).  Also, the Vegas access to water is well secured due to the construction of Intake 3 ( the bathtub drain). Even after the lake goes below the Hoover outlet ("dead pool"), and no water is going to SoCal or to the lettuce farms in Yuma, Vegas will still have water access.

Basically, Vegas has been quite forward-thinking and progressive on water issues, and as a result is way better off than knee-jerk commentators might think. 

Re: power grid. Electricity distribution is regional in nature. Vegas is no more reliant on Hoover than anywhere else in the SW US. It's not like living in Flagstaff changes the situation at all.

Vegas is still evil, but people are getting hung up on the wrong issues. 

Nick Henscheid wrote:

He has talked about it in the context of being a spectacular place to be a climber (various podcasts and interviews).   You have thousands of routes 5.5-5.15 within a 30min-2 hour drive and tens of thousands within a 6 hour drive. 

I'm sure he's got a lot of opinions about refrigerators, but that wasn't what I was wondering about.

JCM wrote: Basically, Vegas has been quite forward-thinking and progressive on water issues, and as a result is way better off than knee-jerk commentators might think. 

Yo I asked IF he has talked about this topic, not that I am of the opinion that his place of residence is fundamentally screwed up. Just you know: what's he think? He's got a lot of good opinions about environmental topics and I value his opinion.

boulder is fine if you do not mind waiting in line for climbing coffee and everything else

Long Ranger wrote:

Yo I asked IF he has talked about this topic, not that I am of the opinion that his place of residence is fundamentally screwed up.

JCM was responding you your comment/opinion "...that Vegas would be an interesting choice, as it's reliant on the Hoover Dam for booth electricity and water.", not what Honnold thinks about it.

curt86iroc wrote: western slope is looking better and better every day...

The Slope was getting prohibitively expensive even before c19 hit.

GJ: expensive relative to size and wages, filling up with disillusioned Front Rangers, high rates of crime/homelessness/mental unwellness. Highest divorce rate per capita in the US. Local climbing is mediocre, even the routes that I've developed. 1.5 hour radius climbing is slightly better. No sport climbing aside from Rifle. Few dating opportunities unless you want to take care of kids from two different baby daddies, and have really good partner dental benefits. Fruita singletrack can be ridden out in two days. Climbing "community", while possessing a few great people, is largely factionalized and not socially-minded. 

Delta: Many drugs, and not the fun kind. No, Escalante Canyon is not Indian Creek, and the BLM is trading parcels back to ranchers. No jobs. No climber-eligible women.

Montrose: No local cragging (30' sandstone that takes longer to get to than Ouray), no jobs, few social opportunities beyond 4H.

Ridgway: Expensive.

Ouray: more expensive.

The Slope is an acquired taste, one that most people who value Front Range lifestyles will realize after a year is not really for them.

Grand Junction

If you have some money saved and/or can get a loan, buy a small lot outside of your attractive town with a dynamic economy. Be close to power lines, well water. A place where regulations and HOA rules are less intrusive, or absent. Codes vary by state/county/city so choose carefully. Run power, drill a well. Buy a used white-trash house trailer. Set it up. Wood stove/solar if possible. Rent a room to dirtbags, skibums, trailer trash, whatever. Live the dream.

This used to be popular option on the Western side of the Tetons in Idaho. And to a lesser degree near Alpine, WY. It was easier years ago but still possible with hard work, or a partner (investment was the land, not rental income usually). The mortgage will be far lower than rent. Trade up when the market allows. Avoid towns like Dubois, Cody, Ten Sleep, Buffalo, Pinedale and Lander, WY, if you lack skills needed for a good income. 

Any anomaly worth calling home usually favors the wealthy. So, maybe up your skills so you can work less and earn more. Or give up on the American dream, move to Bolivia.

JCM wrote:

Vegas is still evil, but people are getting hung up on the wrong issues. 

It’s the $500 HJs that’ll really get you 

Newt Riverman wrote:

Grand Junction

If someone likes living in Boulder for any additional reason beyond roximity -- GJ does not have any of those amenities. As someone who spent eleven years on the Western Slope, I repeat my previous assertion that if someone is looking for a cheaper, smaller version of the Front Range, it will not be found on any small town along the US-50 corridor. Not even Ridgway or Ouray. 

Manchester NH might be your answer.  New England climbing is super underrated and everything just feels a lot closer than out west.  Average cost of a house is like 340k, there's no income or sales tax, and the population is just over 100k.  

Sport you have Rumney an hour away with world class climbing of all styles.  There's also plenty of new development nearby too if you want to avoid the crowds (Sundown, Russel, etc.)

Bouldering you have Pway with some of the best rock in the country and Exeter too - both are under 30 min away.  Rumney and Farley also are close by with more top notch bouldering.

Trad there's Cathedral which is the best of the state but plenty of others like Cannon in the Whites.  

And that's not even touching on the rest of New England :) 

Flagstaff > SLC > Boulder

If I didn't have to live near an international Airport for work I would have never left Flagstaff. 2.5 hours from phoenix was to far for my job to accept and I would never even consider for a moment to live in Phoenix. Flag is hands down one of the coolest towns I have lived in. Decent sport climbing, Amazing single pitch trad climbing, close to incredible climbing destinations. However days are shorter than SLC or the Front Range if you plan to climb outside after a 9-5 job. Flag has great scene, decent gyms, amazing beer and you can bike anywhere in town. When someone says the crag is crowded in Flagstaff it is quite comical. Think a handful of people and 1 dog. Cost of living is still relatively low for what you get. Think boulder but smaller and isolated.  

SLC - amazing gyms. Great access to the outdoors. Winters suck unless you ski and summers are worse but location is fantastic and you just drive a few hours. The complaints about ski traffic are from people who have never had to drive up i70 at 4am to beat front range traffic. Leave at 6 am on any powder day and you will rarely have a problem.  Cost of living is rising fast.

Boulder -  Okay gyms, amazing bike paths, good beer and food. No matter what grade you climb at if it is a 4 star route and a weekend you will have a line. Even on week days after work you will encounter a line. Cost of living is 1.2 million for a 3 bedroom with 1 bathroom that has been trashed by college kids for 25 years.  

I would consider Chattanooga, TN and Ashville, NC if you like rain, affordability and amazing rock. Both places where high on my list to move to.

Frazer, it comes down to the same sort of drivers that we bring to our climbing: risk versus reward.

How old are you, how secure do you want to be, how willing are you to just take a shot at it and see what happens? Who else is part of this decision?

Then, what's the tradeoff? Are you comfortable enough where you are, that this is more just daydreaming? Getting up off the couch is the hardest sit start of all, for myself, anyway. But? I am now at a place in my life where the only hurdles to anything....are me. How much effort do I want to put into it, whatever that "it" may be.

That's the thing, line out those plus and minuses, sure.

But then it still comes down to go for it.

Or not.

There's a considerable list of reasonably good places to live, including, yes, Idaho. 

But the tradeoffs are real, and not for everyone, or even most people, honestly. The huge one is housing prices. They went from crazy, prepandemic, to insane, and that hasn't burst yet. Wall Street was buying Boise/Idaho, FFS. 

The job market is totally bizarre too.

The low end places, as everywhere, are raising pay, but still can't stay open, because they don't have enough people to staff the place. Restaurants have limited hours because they don't have line cooks, let alone dishwashers. This has never happened here, ever, at least that I know of, except in towns like Ketchum or Jackson that have been populated with uber rich for a long time, and the service class that works there can't afford to live anywhere near those they serve. Hmmmmm.....

But if you move here, without a big pile of money to buy a place? Or support yourself? Or have that work from anywhere job with Bay area based wage?

That line cook job will no longer pay the rent.

The working poor suddenly includes a whole hella lot of what used to be just regular folks, money tight, sure, but not desparately so.

It's insane.

I think I might see myself leaning toward the pitchforks and torches edge of socialism, in sympathy if not in fact, somewhere in the decades I have left. The pandemic has highlighted a lot of what has been wildly imbalanced and unfair in our country, for a long time.

Betcha it gets...interesting. Once you simply say "no"? Then the future becomes wide open to whatever we decide. It's happening now.

Best to you, truly. Helen

You have this all backwards folks; Anomaly is a boulder

hotlum wrote:

My wife and I would gladly give up a big percentage of the inflated value our house is now worth over what we paid ten years ago (it is 4x!) to have the crowds and overall hype thin out. Nativism isn't a good look, but literally NONE of our friends or family have anything good to say about the direction our community is headded. It is becoming increasingly stratified like so many other places and it feels very in your face. 

My sympathies. I'm an Oregonian, from The Dalles, way way BITD.

IMO, Sunriver got Bend started down that path, a long time ago, but yeah, it's accelerating appallingly, like a lot of places. 

EDIT to add, here's a house quite close to mine. No, it isn't better than it looks. I could sell my even smaller house for $350,000+......but where would I go then??

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1213-S-Phillippi-St-Boise-ID-83705/72686677_zpid/

Best, H.

Old lady H wrote:

My sympathies. I'm an Oregonian, from The Dalles, way way BITD.

IMO, Sunriver got Bend started down that path, a long time ago, but yeah, it's accelerating appallingly, like a lot of places. 

EDIT to add, here's a house quite close to mine. No, it isn't better than it looks. I could sell my even smaller house for $350,000+......but where would I go then??

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1213-S-Phillippi-St-Boise-ID-83705/72686677_zpid/

Best, H.

Wow, what a dump!

We were thinking about Bend (possible "active" retirement) after visiting in Fall of 2019.  Things seem to have gone extra crazy since then. Not sure where we may end up.

A V wrote:

Learn to code,

How dare you sir.