New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #18

Always ate and drank whatever I wanted  and was always ripped until  martial arts injuries caught up to me in  my mid 30s..  still eat whatever I want and am not ripped ;)  Never climbed harder than 5.11 but am still having fun. 

Top of yellow spur mid 80s.. 

local crag

Ni dan test 87.. 

  now.. LOL... 

S. Neohwrote:

Totally Ward.  Funny I never knew we were both super skinny at around the same time.  I weighed 117 in the mid '90's.  I weigh 7 to 9# more now but happier.  As you said, I dropped a few pounds for Kalymnos in 2018 and that made a noticeable difference.

Soon,

I wouldn't have described either of you as "skinny."  Both you and Ward were "lean and mean..." back then.  You have different body types so you were more "lean" and Ward more "mean."   At my fittest, I was around 7%, and compared to you guys, I thought I was fat. 

I was pretty careful with my diet and training but never had Ward's discipline or genetics. (Although, I think his discipline was the more important part of his success.)

I remember the first time I saw Dave Graham climb:  he's 5'11, 130 lbs, positive ape index, and has "fingers of steel...", and thinking; "that kids going somewhere..."

ed "still proudly 'American Slim..'" e

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Love the Ted Lasso mustache...

No good climbing pictures from BITD, but me in Garnet Canyon in 1980.

S. Neohwrote:

No pictures from the '90's to share or want to :)  I have bird legs, so there.  My dress shirt is 15/33, slim cut.  28.5/29 inch waist.  So yes, I am small human.
I love my fat so no danger there. For me, to lose weight is to exercise more, eat the right things but not less (I get hungry easily), and get motivated for an upcoming trip. COVID has shut that down for more than 1.5 years now and I am getting super antsy.

P.S.  Proper warmup is legit.  I need it now more than I did 20, 30 years ago but even back then I *tried* to warm up properly.

My solution for covid antsy and no travel has been to buy a Jeep Rubicon and get out in the boonies. I don't know where you are, but CA has so much desert and arid mountain ranges that exploration is endless. I'm not in it for four wheeling as a sport, just to get to places I'll never see otherwise. This is an old Talc mine 20 miles into the Panamint range from Death Valley...

Can you imagine hauling tons of mining equipment 20 mile up into the mountains with no source of water along the way (or when you get there)? Then someone decides "This is it, here's where we dig." 

Did I say tons? Steam powered rock crusher where there's no water? Talk about supply chain...

Coming down into Death Valley from the west is spectacular, and the only way you'll see it is 4WD or a bike. I suppose you could walk the 20 miles, but that would be a real trudge, sand every foot of the way. A couple guys on those BMW's that double as road and dirt bikes came through. Nice rides. But they've gotta go in markets or restaurants for food. Jeep, Dog, and I are self contained. Sometimes a healthy friend gets to ride along. 

Way back when I got my Stone Master diploma and was 117 pounds.

In my 50s after I was well doctored with the proper hormones in me.  Not really lean at 130 but fucking strong.

With good endurance as well.

Ward Smithwrote:

When I was psycho obsessed n my 30s I got down to 148 with 3.8% body fat.  The climbing trainers who evaluated me thought that I might have an eating disorder, but my wife (girlfriend at the time) told them that I ate plenty but I was just rigid about what I ate and never over ate.

I'm now in my upper 150s and at 5' 9" could definitely lose some weight.  No doubt I  have less muscle than I did then so losing 5 pounds should have no adverse health impacts.  

Getting too lean is definitely bad, but the vast majority of us older climbers could improve most easily by just dropping some pounds.

I'm currently about 145 at 5' 6" (I kindly converted for you folk). I'd like to be in the range 64 to 64.9 kilos (141 - 152). 

Problem with that is the resulting slightly baggy skin.

I went to one of the newer bouldering gyms today. Had a good time and tried a problem I've been trying lately with no luck. It's about a V4 to V5 maybe which is hard for me. It's a roof climb (I love roof climbs) but there's a swing at the lip I can't control... Maybe next time I try it I'll get a video so you lot can give me beta! 

You all are posting great pics!  It's so nice to see faces (and bodies) with names.  Why did no one ask for them before?  

Kris, what a great trip you had!  When I first saw your mine picture I thought it was mine!  I took this one last year... just happened to bump into a spooky looking quarry when out hiking in Auburn.

Jan mentioned hormones which I understand saved his life.  My doc just started me on a hormone called Tesamorelin, a Human Growth Release Hormone ... I put this off as long as I could, my labs and symptoms have made this a new priority.  I'm a little trepidatious about it.  I wish there was some kind of conversation group (FB? Reddit?) to discuss experiences with peptides and hormones , especially as it pertains to aging and wellness.  Insulin, thyroid, sex hormones, various peptides, HGH... it's a challenge to juggle an endocrine system gone amok. 

Who mentioned Judas?  This is my Judas picture... me poking around and wishing.  That's probably as far as I'll ever get.  

Lori, I have been without HGH in my system for decades.  At this point in life my doctor says it would be more likely to give me cancer than anything else.  Since my pituitary doesn't work a releasing hormone would have no effect.  I did do HGH injections for about a year and the only thing I really noticed was that my eyesight was slightly better and I could sit about 5 pounds lighter without any extra effort.  The hormone to watch if your thyroid levels are too low is your cortosol levels since the low thyroid levels will cause you to reach adrenal insufficiency sooner or later.

Judas is one of those routes that takes serious crack skills to do without tearing yourself up.  It also helps to have a little bigger hands than most women have.  I watched my wife, who was a solid 5.11 climber flail on that thing until she was bloody while I could float it.  Hand size was part of that difference.

Jan Mcwrote:

Lori, I have been without HGH in my system for decades.  At this point in life my doctor says it would be more likely to give me cancer than anything else.  Since my pituitary doesn't work a releasing hormone would have no effect.  I did do HGH injections for about a year and the only thing I really noticed was that my eyesight was slightly better and I could sit about 5 pounds lighter without any extra effort.  The hormone to watch if your thyroid levels are too low is your cortosol levels since the low thyroid levels will cause you to reach adrenal insufficiency sooner or later.

Judas is one of those routes that takes serious crack skills to do without tearing yourself up.  It also helps to have a little bigger hands than most women have.  I watched my wife, who was a solid 5.11 climber flail on that thing until she was bloody while I could float it.  Hand size was part of that difference.

Hey Jan thanks for sharing. I haven’t wanted to pry or get too personal, especially on a non-Climbing related subject, but it’s also pretty important to me. 30 years ago my doctor said “You just were born with a shitty endocrine system.“ So thyroid issues at 20, adrenal issues at 30 , diabetes in my 40’s, female Hormones along the way, it just progressed.  I’ve done everything I can to not be on prescription cortisol but I am right there, ready to just add that in.  A hard day of climbing can put me to bed for quite while … lab tests show my a.m. fasting cortisol as being always low.  My doc would be happy to see me taking adrenal hormones, but he has also warned “Stop with the exercise!”  As of my last visit he seemed to stop harping. 

 So it’s quite a juggling act to not get too much of one thing or two little of another, but the effort is well worth it (as you seem to also be saying) so you can have a life. 

That Judas is quite a special line and maybe someday someone will let me stand on their shoulders to get a good start. I’m getting better at crack climbing. I don’t love it yet, but I’m not running from it either. And truthfully  I’m just so grateful to be able to do any of it.  Glad you have found your answers after so much hardship and you have been able to have your life back again.   

Jan Mcwrote:

Lori, I have been without HGH in my system for decades.  At this point in life my doctor says it would be more likely to give me cancer than anything else.  Since my pituitary doesn't work a releasing hormone would have no effect.  I did do HGH injections for about a year and the only thing I really noticed was that my eyesight was slightly better and I could sit about 5 pounds lighter without any extra effort.  The hormone to watch if your thyroid levels are too low is your cortosol levels since the low thyroid levels will cause you to reach adrenal insufficiency sooner or later.

Judas is one of those routes that takes serious crack skills to do without tearing yourself up.  It also helps to have a little bigger hands than most women have.  I watched my wife, who was a solid 5.11 climber flail on that thing until she was bloody while I could float it.  Hand size was part of that difference.

In terms of our endocrine systems we seniors today are in uncharted territory. We are living longer and remaining active for longer than our predecessors (although with the skyrocketing rates of obesity this is expected to change). So, many of us simply out-live our natural ability to produce and regulate hormones. I know several people our approximate age - Jan especially - who went into decline and finally began hormone therapy. In each case the results for them have been remarkable. If I wasn't on a fairly aggressive regimen myself not only would I be frail with no energy, the depression would be overwhelming. 

The endocrinologist I see is, for most cases, anti HGH. Her explanation is that by now we all have some sort of small tumors in our bodies. In nearly all cases these things are benign, they're just there. But since cancer cells can reproduce much more rapidly than the rest of our cells, a stimulant like HGH is unwise.

I've been away for a few days, so I want to go back quite a few posts on this thread (before most of the 'body fat %' posts), to thank rgold for his very insightful (as always) comments on ageing as a climber. Rich, you were a mentor and inspiration early in my climbing career, and now are reprising that role as we approach (reluctantly and fighting rear guard actions as we go) the other end. You are describing what I have been experiencing of late, and provide great thoughts on how to 'deal with it'. Thanks.

On the body fat%, I have never known, nor really paid attention---but, then again, I have never been nearly as good a climber as many of you. I always ate what I wanted, and for years, decades, never gained any weight--but was quite weak. I have no pictures from back then, though believe that Rich has posted a couple elsewhere in the past. In later decades I did start to put on some pounds--though never too many, but also became stronger--so some of those pounds (though definitely not all) were muscle. Still probably stronger now in my 70s than I was in my 20s, but joint and other issues are negatively effecting my performance.

Al, you seem do be doing fine having climbed with you in the gym recently.  I know I smoked pot  just before we climbed, but Coca Cola?  Really?  That's just one step below heroin. 

I don't know anything, but clean Heroin might be a few steps up the ladder. 

Lori, cortisol (generic is hydrocortisone) is my favorite drug.  It keeps me from hurting and from being exhausted after one climb.  You really should try some if you are low and your doctor recommends it.  I don't know if there are downsides, I haven't seen any.

It's so funny here. This thread seems to be cyclic. It seems it was only yesterday we were all talking about diet and body fat. Do you think maybe we're all suffering Alzheimer's so forget what we've covered? We're also up to thread number 18 and with each one covering 50 pages (I think) it's been a long discussion :-)

I must say we all have our issues but it does seem to me at almost 60 that I am very very lucky. Other than a few snapped tendons and slightly high blood pressure I have no medical issues at all. Every thing works fine and I take no medications.  I gather my hormones are fine, they seem to be and my metabolism is still really fast. My wife can't understand how I can eat so much chocolate, Doritos, ice creams and drink so much beer and not be overweight. I complain incessantly that I'm fat but of course in reality I'm not, I could lose maybe 2 kilos but my BMI is 23.87 which is in the healthy range.  

It's still good to be alive and have people around me who want to climb with me.   

I think is simply WONDERFUL that this seasonal storm induced power outage has induced me to bring hither my most esoteric instrument and play delightful merry tunes for all, including excerpts from Psycho, The Exorcist, and other different sounds whilst being devoid of skill, body awareness or social boundaries and yet listening, intently, studiously to Cindy's calmy and patiently delivered description on what I should do with the esoteric instrument.

Lori said…”Who mentioned Judas?  This is my Judas picture... me poking around and wishing.  That's probably as far as I'll ever get.”

That was me. And because you like stories here goes.

“Judas… a five f#%k Ten” John B said from the backseat of my car. Bulwinkle was in agreement so it was decided that’s the goal and we wouldn’t leave Josh till it was done. At the time there weren’t to many climbs at that lofty grade in the park (74) We get to the climb… 2 minutes from camp… and John is ready, takes the rack and starts up. He got a “good stopper” in and lowered down (back then he was a mere mortal). Bulwinkle’s turn… fires up, at crux he really went for it and took a flyer…. Pulled the bomber pro and decks (into the little spot between the main wall and the small rock at the base) So we get Bulwinkle dusted off, do some first aid on him, then it’s my turn…. I fired it. :)
Bulwinkle has this all documented and someday the photos might be released- they are hilarious and the one of very young John attending to the wounded Bulwinkle (he and Bull were in HS at the time) might be the first photo of him climbing ever. 

Carl… what is it? A one string? 

Guy Keeseewrote:

Lori said…”Who mentioned Judas?  This is my Judas picture... me poking around and wishing.  That's probably as far as I'll ever get.”

That was me. And because you like stories here goes.

“Judas… a five f#%k Ten” John B said from the backseat of my car. Bulwinkle was in agreement so it was decided that’s the goal and we wouldn’t leave Josh till it was done. At the time there weren’t to many climbs at that lofty grade in the park (74) We get to the climb… 2 minutes from camp… and John is ready, takes the rack and starts up. He got a “good stopper” in and lowered down (back then he was a mere mortal). Bulwinkle’s turn… fires up, at crux he really went for it and took a flyer…. Pulled the bomber pro and decks (into the little spot between the main wall and the small rock at the base) So we get Bulwinkle dusted off, do some first aid on him, then it’s my turn…. I fired it. :)
Bulwinkle has this all documented and someday the photos might be released- they are hilarious and the one of very young John attending to the wounded Bulwinkle (he and Bull were in HS at the time) might be the first photo of him climbing ever. 

Carl… what is it? A one string? 

"...has induced me to bring hither my most esoteric instrument ... intently, studiously to Cindy's calmy and patiently delivered description on what I should do with the esoteric instrument."   Am I the only one who saw this Victorian description of a 'most esoteric instrument'?  Actually, tmi for me.      I know Carl and Cindy have a tempestuous relationship but this hurts my brain. 

Guy... I LOVE stories.  Whaddaya mean 'might be released'?  If anyone has pictures, they MUST be released, mustn't they?  I kind of feel like these are now important historical museum pieces that belong to the public domain.  Who's Bulwinkle?  Can we persuade him to give up the photos?  

It blows my mind that I, a newcomer to Joshua Tree, could spot that line from across the campground and think "Hmmm... that looks interesting.  I think I'll wander over there and see what it is." believing that I discovered something brand new with no history.  Seriously, somehow we have to salvage this era in climbing history. get it into a book.  

Bullwinkle AKA  Dean Fidelman on the Right. Gary Ayres (RIP) and Shawn Curtis (RIP) L-R 

This was 1975. Lori can you guess the location of this shot?

Me at Suicide 1976, we were "working" Rebolting Developments, I had just survived the fall getting to bolt #3, the "running belayer" trick worked or I'd be dead. Getting ready to try again.

 Castle Rock Spire

Kris and I on summit of CRS.  Yes he is a little feller :)  18th ascent, 2nd Free ascent, not by me though, I did some French Free to overcome the 5.11D off fingers.