How did you let your teen develop new climbing partners?

As someone who started rope soloing around that age with parents completely uninvolved in the sport and only enough knowledge to know it can be very dangerous I think what was key was showing them that I knew what I was doing .  So for you that’s making sure you know your kids honest ability and know that he’s not dumb I think it’s like anything you either know enough to calculate what your doing or you don’t really know enough to do it so if he’s really as solid and strong as you say then trust that he know what he’s doing and he will make good choices . Saying you’ve climbed with him a good amount you should have a good grasp on we’re he’s at on the spectrum of sketchy to bomber . 

I'm reminded of this video:

Wendy Laakmann wrote:

 He’s a competent sport leader...

Based on the rest of your story, he actually is not. Because he's not aware of all the things that can go wrong, even in the constrained domain of sport climbing. One of the problems is that he's probably only seen the good examples that you set. Has he ever seen the grigri belayer that clamps the device closed with the brake hand while yanking the climber end with their other hand? It happens all the time with a new belayer and a climber working at their limit.

It's a scary time. But the genie is out of the bottle now and the best you can do is remind him to be careful and continue educating him when the opportunities come up.

but of course my poor son would be mortified that we are interfering.

Don't worry about that. Kids don't know about the internet, and Mountain Project.

Sometimes I am amazed that I survived my late teens as I am sure lots of people are in hindsight. But thinking more about it, I realize my dad taught me (growing up on a farm with loads of things that could kill one) not to avoid danger, but to be competent when faced with it.

If not already, you are very close to a time where you will have to let go and trust your parenting has been enough. Worst thing you can do is to be too harsh and restrictive, driving your kid to keep his adventures secret from you. 

Nobody can guarantee that a young person won't hurt themselves badly, but by the sounds of it, you have already taught him as best you could. Now he needs to test his wings, be supportive, but don't strangle him with advice that will drive him away... 

I just want to say that posing this question is a sign of good parenting: helping her son realize some of his goals while being her son’s mother.  We should all have such good mothers. (I did, actually). Nice, Wendy. 

Wow I love this community. I love that I can get a range of perspectives on things that matter to me, since I don't share these kinds of worries with most of my non-climbing friends.  

Some follow up-The boy we didn't know has actually grown up climbing with his family, and per my son was a fairly competent climber himself.  My son still didn't let him belay since he hadn't really seen him climb/lead belay before (parenting win!), and a fourth kid showed up who turns out had never climbed before, and chose to sit and watch but not climb (another parenting win!).  So good judgment was exercised by 4 teen boys, and it all turned out fine, but I don't think I'll ever stop worrying. It's SO hard to parent on the edge of safety versus independence.  

And Marco, thanks for making me burst into tears.  I often question what the heck I'm doing as a mom, so your message was really kind.

Wendy Laakmann wrote:

Wow I love this community. I love that I can get a range of perspectives on things that matter to me, since I don't share these kinds of worries with most of my non-climbing friends.  

Some follow up-The boy we didn't know has actually grown up climbing with his family, and per my son was a fairly competent climber himself.  My son still didn't let him belay since he hadn't really seen him climb/lead belay before (parenting win!), and a fourth kid showed up who turns out had never climbed before, and chose to sit and watch but not climb (another parenting win!).  So good judgment was exercised by 4 teen boys, and it all turned out fine, but I don't think I'll ever stop worrying. It's SO hard to parent on the edge of safety versus independence.  

And Marco, thanks for making me burst into tears.  I often question what the heck I'm doing as a mom, so your message was really kind.

Hey, looks like you're in Bend, so I assume they're climbing at Smith, plus, if they're local kids, well, they'll get recognized by other locals, eventually. 

The thing is, climbing is a smallish community. If they are out when others are around? People will likely step up to the plate if they see something dicey, or, even just offer a stick clip, or route info, if they look befuddled, lol! That's a climber thing! We've all helped....and we've all had help offered. Even just a lap on a rope that's up, or commiseration for a devious crux, or congrats on a nice move!

Congrats on being mostly done, and getting him well on his way, mom!

Best, Helen

This might be the first post I’ve seen on MP where no trolls showed up and everybody actually acted like a supportive community… for that, I thank the Op for posting!!!

MP win! Good work guys! 

James W wrote:

I can’t even recall seeing 16 yo out on their own.  I live in America’s #1 town of child super climbers - I just don’t even recall.  There is usually an adult around, that adult could be an experienced 20 something.  If the kid climbs, he likely has friends in their 20’s.  It’s not about trust, it’s about the 16 yo brain processing consequences in an activity that regularly maims and kills people.

You clearly live a sheltered life ;-)

from https://www.carabiner.news/hobbs-kessler-climbs-5-14-and-runs-a-sub-four-minute-mile-and-he-is-simply-17/

The next year Hobbs came to Yosemite to help Connor work on freeing the Nose on El Capitan. The two 15-year-olds rapped in from the top so Connor could work the Changing Corners pitch. “I had been talking to him about it [rapping from the top] because I had heard stories of people who are very experienced multi-pitch climbers who got freaked out rappelling off the top of El Cap. He was so nonchalant about it. It didn’t affect him at all,” said Connor, who later that year became the sixth and youngest person to free the Nose.

Terry E wrote:

You clearly live a sheltered life ;-)

For starters, Terry, a 15 yr old can’t drive without an adult.  Were you there that day or do you know the Hersons, or did you just grab a story among 1000’s of others like it off Google?  Since you offer no personal insight, I’ll assume the latter.  Hobbs was a family friend, met I believe from Connor traveling and competing.  Jim took both those kids on trips all over the country.  If he wasn’t up there on that particular day, he definitely helped them plan it and knew every detail of what they would be doing.

The fact is you likely couldn’t have found a worse example from the entire history of climbing of letting ~16 yr olds go out unsupervised to do their own thing.

James W wrote:

For starters, Terry, a 15 yr old can’t drive without an adult.  Were you there that day or do you know the Hersons, or did you just grab a story among 1000’s of others like it off Google?  Since you offer no personal insight, I’ll assume the latter.  Hobbs was a family friend, met I believe from Connor traveling and competing.  Jim took both those kids on trips all over the country.  If he wasn’t up there on that particular day, he definitely helped them plan it and knew every detail of what they would be doing.

The fact is you likely couldn’t have found a worse example from the entire history of climbing of letting ~16 yr olds go out unsupervised to do their own thing.

I also met the Hersons once, and they don't remember me either.

There are plenty of 16 yr olds out there climbing on their own. Some are safe and responsible, others are reckless and taking chances they don't understand. Not much different from many adults. Because that's what they are, young adults.

soft crux wrote:

There are plenty of 16 yr olds out there climbing on their own. 

You forgot to post a link to an example from your Google search.  IRL - I just don’t see it.

Grug M wrote:

Absolute last person anyone should take advice from. Remember when you bolted petroglyphs in Arches National Park? And continue to state that you have brain damage so that excuses you from the rules?

Again… was NOT in Arches National Park. Remember when you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about? Remember when I turned myself in within 24 hours of being told they were petroglyphs? Remember when I stood in front of the entire community, and world, and apologized? Remember when I did a webinar with the access fund to make sure it never happened again??

At this point Grug… you’re just a bully.

So much advice already. As the father of two teens, and a 10 year old: Set limits. If your kid is already hopping in cars with friends like mine is, the game is already over. They can now choose what to share and not share with you about where they go and what they do. I know I didn't tell my parents the half of what I was up to. All you can do is discuss and agree on some limits. Maybe in this case the rule is no multi pitch, or at most 3 people in a crew (fewer people equals less distractions?), or only be lead belayed by certain people you both identify and agree on. Maybe create a plan where they can call you while at the crag and run a scenario by you, so you can "approve" ahead of time and mention any safety issues.  Like a teen calling from a party to say they want to stay late and will get a ride home from a trusted friend instead of you. Just keeping the communication open, basically.

bryans, thank you!  Those are the kinds of "rules" I was looking for.  We've talked alot about this all weekend, and while my initial panic is down, I do seek structure around doing everything I can to keep these kids safe.  I hadn't thought of the "call us if there's any doubt" idea, but that's a good one.  No multipitch is a good one, and no belayers we haven't sussed out is also in our mix. We added no one else cleans the routes to switch over the anchors unless we've (an adult) has shown them what to do and approved them.

What do you all think about leading?  Let them try and learn, or set limits around that too?

I was a good kid with goodish judgement.  At 17 my climbing partner (also 17) slipped and fell to his death in the mountains. 30 years later I'm still careening through this existence never fully at peace why he is not.

Sooner than later he will be his own fully independent person but 16 is still young and maybe you don't have to honor his request.  At the very least you shouldn't feel obligated to honor it with other, much less experienced, 16-year-olds.  I'd agree with the following advice.

"All I can say, on the practical side of it? Try to find a way they can get away from you....but in with much better climbers. Hire a guide, see if they can get that true mentor, see if they might be interested in signing up with the local SAR people."

My daughter is 15 and has experienced the gamut of climbing styles with me.   She is suddenly much less interested in climbing with me or associating with her parents in general.   Soon enough I'll be in the same boat as you and really have no clue how I'll handle it.

I learned right behind my son, who was my introduction to climbing. He learned, taught me that next little bit, and off we went, neither with experience. 

But? 

He was involved with SAR, and learning tech rescue stuff from people who not only knew their stuff, but had applied it, in appallingly bad outcome situations. He also was an EMT, and had experience with human road kill.

Even so?

At 20, when we started?

Mom thought carefully about doing this with him, being climbing partners. Even if neither of us ever messed up? There is still that looming possibility of "killing" the other. Could I accept that, for my son? 

Our answer was yes. We talked about it.

That's what I would never wish for anyone, of course, but particularly for a young person. Usually, 16 has not gone through much, if any, shit more serious than acne and angsting over dates. That's as it should be.

Responsible he may well be....

But mature, in that way?

Hopefully not.

I'd talk seriously with him, about just this. If he isn't willing to consider it or talk about it? Well, he's definitely not ready for full partnership in roped climbing outdoors, with anyone who isn't capable of keeping it super comfy safe. He certainly shouldn't consider himself the leader, yet. He needs to follow, lots.

Bouldering, being on roped stuff with older experienced climbers, sure. He can even bring that SINGLE friend he trusts, to learn to be a good partner. 

Out with more than one friend, or, worse yet, a new person, or people? Showing them the ropes? The potential for disaster is there, with pure blind luck as plan B when plan A is idiotic. 

Most everyone has been there, done that, and those that aren't here, are largely not here due to stupidity...in hindsight. Hindsight is no help to the dead. Being the survivor can be worse than dead.

I'd ask him how he wants to work this. How he anticipates things going wrong, does he think he's ready to instruct others, and accept it if he misses something and fucks his friends forever? You can be gentler than that, or not, but he has to be real about this.

If you hear good answers, or at least see thoughtfulness? Pop for some time with a guide, him and that one partner. More than one session. Let the guide be the judge on this, they can dispassionately let him know how to go forward.

It's tough! I don't know how I would do this, if my kid had started as a child. 

But, as it was?

I did have ironclad rules in place for the use of tools. He could take a shot at using any hand tool, at any age, as it hurts when you mess up, but it's really hard to actually harm yourself. Then, certain power tools. A circular saw was last, and only when I was there, and watching, later, only when I was there. Then, anything at all, obviously, although I warned him strongly about table and band saws.

All the stuff we guide them through is similar. Climbing is extremely unforgiving though, with extreme consequences not just for yourself, but others. Hardly anything most teens have access to is like that, even driving, if they wear their seatbelt and make passengers do so also.

Maybe time to get him a nonparent adult, eh? Especially if he's "earned" it with you bestowing your faith in him in other ways, driving, curfews, etc. If he's not there, well, it may be too late, anyway. 

Best, Helen

What a great thread!   And yeah, I'm a lucky guy and married well :)

Two things we've drilled into our son over the years:  know your limits and choose your partners carefully - that's how to stay alive at this game.

I was pleased to hear him say they did not let the new kid belay until they sussed him out at the gym.  

Wendy Laakmann wrote:

My son still didn't let him belay since he hadn't really seen him climb/lead belay before (parenting win!)

This is a win, pat yourself on the back!  It's also a very, very good sign that your son has a good head on his shoulders.