How did you let your teen develop new climbing partners?

My 16-year old is a strong climber who has grown up climbing with our family. He’s a competent sport leader, a beginning trad leader, and up until recently my husband and I have assumed he would climb primarily with us until he left for college, and then develop from there.

I'm not sure how we didn’t see this coming, but here we are. He’s asking to climb on his own with friends, and thankfully we’re near a great area for this to happen. We know he’s well trained and skilled, but suddenly we’re in this position of him going out with friends we’ve never met, some of whom are new climbers themselves. How do we know these kids are safe? The worried mom in me wants to call them and suss them out, but of course my poor son would be mortified that we are interfering.

He went out without us for the first time today with two kids, one we know and one we don’t. My son led a warm up, and then jumped on an 11 sport route that he’s done before. He lowered and then both friends tried to lead it, unsuccessfully. They both lowered after a few bolts and my son re lead and then cleaned it. These other kids are no where near leading 11s.

On the one hand, good on them for trying something hard. But on the other, they have no idea what they don’t know, one of them has never even lead belayed (my son thankfully knew enough not to let him belay his leads). They will take falls and potentially get hurt if they’re not careful. The kid we know should be leading easy 10s, he has terrible footwork but wants big numbers so he can brag to others. He’s a great kid but he’s fairly new and tries hard to impress others.

My question is to other parents. How have you let your child develop new climbing partners? Trust his judgment because you’ve taught him well, and let him learn from his experiences? Cross your fingers and hope no one gets hurt while they figure things out? Or climb nearby and watch like a hawk until you feel they are safe?

My husband and I decided tonight that our son isn’t allowed to let another kid belay him unless they’ve passed a lead belay test in a gym. What other rules should we put in place? How did you survive having a climbing teen?!

Ever think about taking these new kids under your wing and mentoring them too?? Like the good old days where the words “lead belay test in a gym” never existed. Then YOU can teach them right and they don’t have to go join a gym. 

I'd say a big comfort for my parents was their trust of my knowledge and limits. They knew that I personally knew enough to be able to gauge the ability of my partners, and wouldn't get myself into any dangerous or stupid situations. After a year and a half of mostly taking out less experienced friends and sharing my limited knowledge, I gained some mentors and started learning from them. I mostly stayed out of stupid shenanigans, your son sounds like he'll be fine

Forget the age gap or that you are related to the lead climber. Young or old, we all need mentoring (ongoing) and safety. Just go along for a climbing day together. You obviously have concerns. I would too. I still hat to see any lead climber getting a dangerous belay anywhere. During your day out you can observe and correct accordingly. As your teenage child gets older it may become harder to invite yourself along, so act now. Realistically your child won't be able to see, while leading an 11, if he is being belayed correctly. That's asking for too much of anyone. Only a third party can do this. That you are older or related to the person leading has no bearing on the leader's safety, so jump on in I say!  

Noel Zwrote:

As your teenage child gets older it may become harder to invite yourself along, so act now. 

This is the issue! We’re getting pushback for the first time here, as we’ve always tried to mentor. My son is more than ready to go out on his own, and suddenly he’s really wanting this and I want to honor his need for independence. We’ve mentored his friend with bad foot work and trust him to belay, but he’s ignored our attempts to teach caution as a leader, and he’s in a phase where he’s rejecting all parents, his own included. This kid doesn’t want us along.  He’s also 16 and doesn’t understand that leading above your level is a way to get hurt (or is it? We’re a cautious family and don‘t take many whippers). My son is trying to be a good friend, and when his buddies want to try something he’s supporting them.

Where is the line between logical consequences and being overbearing parents? I’m realizing this might not have an answer, so maybe I need stories about how other families have successfully navigated budding independence in their teens?

As the parent of a young child who I hope will grow up loving to climb...this terrifies me, I've not thought about it before now. 

If he's as good a kid as you say, trust his judgement, because otherwise he's just not gonna tell you the sketchy shit he gets up to.

I've been through this. That one of you son's friends wants to lead above his level, indicates that he doesn't understand what consequence means in climbing. If that person decides to climb above their level way beyond the last protection, they will soon get a lesson they won't forget. That would not be my concern. My concern would be if that same kid belayed my child unsafely. With my child, I went along. It was non-negotiable. If I didn't like what I saw, then I said so and didn't sugar coat it. Why would you? Wrong is wrong. My child did sometimes give some push back to my attendance. I didn't care a jot. You don't have to be a helicopter parent, hovering beside the belayer. Just relax at the crag, walk around, bring a hammock, food, but keep and eye open. Even tell the belayer you have you eye on them so no funny stuff. But if you do go along, then you have to be willing to say, "stop, that's wrong, do it this way instead", when the time comes. I help out with younger climbers in a local club and they need guidance, they are mostly very unsafe belayers and will stay so UNTIl they get the right input or there's an accident.

If you trust in your parenting, trust your kid. 

Be scared, but don't let your fears neuter your kids experience and independence. Sure, teenageers are idiots and get themselves into situations that can be dangerous, but they do that regardless of whether they rock climb or not. Hopefully the fact that you were allowing your kid to partake in potentially dangerous activities while being supervised/mentored has set him up to be able to assess and mitigate risks. If you've given your kid the tools to make good decisions, he probably will.

Wendy Laakmannwrote:

He’s also 16 and doesn’t understand that leading above your level is a way to get hurt (or is it? We’re a cautious family and don‘t take many whippers).

I'm guessing you guys all climb as Smith a lot, so while trying hard there might lead to some longish falls, I would say that's a pretty awesome and relatively safe place to be pushing yourself.

I think you should expose your son/friends to higher consequence climbing. If someone only knows sport climbing and thinks everything is fun and games, they won't have the same approach as someone who knows a bit about head point trad climbing, ice climbing, alpine mixed, sketchy aid, etc. I'm not saying your son should do any of those himself right now, but I think exposing them all to a wider range of climbing would be very very useful. Maybe some exposed alpine scrambling would help to reduce the trust in falling. Just anything to open their minds beyond what they do now.

If YOU can’t mentor the new kids then maybe it’s time for your kid to mentor the noobs. I would go over a curriculum with your kiddo together. This also builds his confidence and self esteem as a leader, teacher, and mentor while, at the same time, teaching and introducing new climbers to the sport. 

16 is too young, IMO.  For sport at Smith with a belayer you approve of - maybe.  The supervision doesn’t have to be you.  A 16 yr is going to have a greater sense of freedom with an adult who isn’t their parent.  The adult roll could be an experienced climber in their 20’s.  It could be a hired guide to get them going.  There’s a difference between what you taught them and what they might learn from someone who isn’t their parent, who is much closer to their age.  Trad climbing - fuk no, there are rules, and an adult is present.

"My 16-year old is a strong climber who has grown up climbing with our family. He’s a competent sport leader, a beginning trad leader,"

Unless you have failed at teaching him what he needs to know, you worry too much. 

Perhaps piano lessons next time.

"My husband and I decided tonight that our son isn’t allowed to let another kid belay him unless they’ve passed a lead belay test in a gym."

All teens are dangerous to themselves and others. Even if they pass a belay test. Driving tests never stopped a kid from getting into a car accident.

But, yep, make sure they can belay. "Gym test"? Hmmm.

James Wwrote:

16 is too young, IMO.  For sport at Smith with a belayer you approve of - maybe.  The supervision doesn’t have to be you.  A 16 yr is going to have a greater sense of freedom with an adult who isn’t their parent.

don’t take this advice. your kid is fine, don’t worry about him, he’s sport climbing and he’s 16, not 12. A 16 year old with a new belayer is no worse than an adult with a new belayer and that happens all the time.

I was a youngish autodidactic climber and much of the fun of climbing was the discovery and adventure of it. I learned from books - buy him a self rescue book and let him climb on his own so he can meet better climbing friends

James Wwrote:

16 is too young, IMO.  For sport at Smith with a belayer you approve of - maybe.  The supervision doesn’t have to be you.  A 16 yr is going to have a greater sense of freedom with an adult who isn’t their parent.  The adult roll could be an experienced climber in their 20’s.  It could be a hired guide to get them going.  There’s a difference between what you taught them and what they might learn from someone who isn’t their parent, who is much closer to their age.  Trad climbing - fuk no, there are rules, and an adult is present.

Huh?

at 15/16 I just started hanging out at the gunks, with parental encouragement, met all my partners that way.  Worked out ok and 45 years later some are still close friends.

to qoute one of the other kids who was on the scene, and hooked up  with Bob Weir when she was 18 ( and still friends with him…) “kids were untethered back then“

let the kid go climbing and it will be ok…give him a car and send him climbing!

James Wwrote:

16 is too young, IMO.  

100 years ago men and women had a full homestead, were married, and had kids by the age of 16. Kids are hunting and carrying around rifles by themselves at 16… a kid who has been climbing most of his life should be responsible enough to climb on his own at 16 for sure. 

A V wrote:

Don’t let him near the alpine climbers 

As the old proverb goes, "If you let your kid get into alpine climbing, balancing the cost of gear and drugs will make him a budgeting powerhouse for the rest of his life"

I can’t even recall seeing 16 yo out on their own.  I live in America’s #1 town of child super climbers - I just don’t even recall.  There is usually an adult around, that adult could be an experienced 20 something.  If the kid climbs, he likely has friends in their 20’s.  It’s not about trust, it’s about the 16 yo brain processing consequences in an activity that regularly maims and kills people.

The main problem, imo, is that until you have a sense of your own mortality, everything is theoretical. Bad stuff happens to other people.

Unfortunately, bad experiences are the best teachers of good judgement. 

Welcome to the nightmare period of being a parent, turning them loose, when you know damn well they might crash and burn in the process!

All I can say, on the practical side of it? Try to find a way they can get away from you....but in with much better climbers. Hire a guide, see if they can get that true mentor, see if they might be interested in signing up with the local SAR people. 

Climbing is just so much less forgiving of stoopud than most everything else a sixteen year old has access to. And, it is rarely scary, if you are used to it.

Until it's terrifying.

He is not just risking himself, he is setting up his friends for disaster.

That person who hasn't lead belayed? Do they know to watch for a middle mark on a rope? Close the system? Will your son make sure of that, every time? And every other simple thing that's easy to forget? Or will that new belayer learn just enough to belay? 

And live with a climber, a friend they trusted, splatting in front of them? 

Because they did not know a middle mark going by mattered, and the rope end wasn't knotted, they have that death to live with... forever.

That's the scenario, for a fatal accident on Red Rib at City of Rocks a few years ago. The rope went right through the device. Lots of mistakes, all of it on the climber who died, imo.

We (a group of adult friends) were there only a couple weeks after....with the 16 year old son of one partner. He, was pretty impressed with climbing so close to an accident, both in time, and proximity. 

If your son isn't realistic about splatting? Or splatting people he cares about? Then no, he isn't ready to be on his own. I've met scary as hell 40 year olds in this category, who still hadn't grasped their own mortality, and 16 year olds who were totally solid and conscientious...although still needed mileage. I've not known any 16 year olds who should be taking out inexperienced climbers, though. Maybe give him carte blanche to boulder all they want? Yeah, you can kill yourself bouldering, but you have to really work at it, or have very bad luck. Otoh, lots of falling, getting bashed up, may just help make it real? Besides, it's very social, and way more fun with a little group than roped stuffed is. 4-6 people with pads, is great, not so much a group at a crag.

Best, Helen

PWZwrote:

If he's as good a kid as you say, trust his judgement, because otherwise he's just not gonna tell you the sketchy shit he gets up to.

THIS!!!

Had to laugh at this thread. I know that times have changed but when I was 16 I hitchhiked from Cincinnati to Yosemite with a few stops on the way and then turned around and hitched to the Gunks.I climbed with new partners and still climb with some of them.