Climbing Parents: how do you find partners who put up with you?

I recently had a falling out of sorts with my oldest climbing partner, over some of the impacts of being a parent, both on the people around the kids and the parents themselves. Their position is not without merit, but it's getting harder and harder to have the kind of mutual trust and respect necessary to a good partnership with that yawning gulf of differing life experiences in the way. I chose to have my kids, and they chose to not have any kids, so that's that. On the other hand, the climber parents that I have interacted with had wildly different ambitions, backgrounds, and temperaments, so I'm not sure what to think.

Climber parents/parents who climb: how do you find partners, especially for long, especially trad/alpine routes?

Petsfed 00wrote:

I recently had a falling out of sorts with my oldest climbing partner, over some of the impacts of being a parent, both on the people around the kids and the parents themselves. Their position is not without merit, but it's getting harder and harder to have the kind of mutual trust and respect necessary to a good partnership with that yawning gulf of differing life experiences in the way. I chose to have my kids, and they chose to not have any kids, so that's that. On the other hand, the climber parents that I have interacted with had wildly different ambitions, backgrounds, and temperaments, so I'm not sure what to think.

Climber parents/parents who climb: how do you find partners, especially for long, especially trad/alpine routes?

I assume you’re not trying to bring your kids along on these long alpine trad routes, so what are the impacts that were causing friction? 

I’m a parent that climbs and I am unsure on what exactly you are asking?

What do you mean by partners putting up with you in relation to being a parent? Putting up with your new priorities in life? Putting up with your new perception of risk? Putting up with your schedule? Are you bringing the family along and they need to put up with them?

As far as finding partners for myself. I had/have a regular partner (long alpine routes, ice climbing, trad climbing) that was/is a great relationship. He is also a parent though. He moved away and we still climb together but only 1-2 times a year. I’ve had luck dragging co-workers out to go climbing, as with anything, those experiences vary but some have made lasting friendships/partners. I have had luck finding partners on MP and in my experience you know within the first hour of climbing with someone new if there will be that second date. Sometimes you strike out, get a base hit, or maybe even a home run.

Have the conversation on what you goals are, expectations as a partner are, be realistic about what your current commitments are (be reliable, you can’t cancel every other weekend because of the kids), what is an acceptable risk to you and your family while climbing, and then test the waters to see if your personalities match. As with ANY relationship, IT TAKES WORK from both parties and doesn’t just happen. Good luck from another Trad Dad. 

I've come to believe having a regular motivated climbing partner is a luxury. I've gotten really flexible as a parent. Rarely do other parent climbers have schedules that line up with mine regularly. 

Em Coswrote:

I assume you’re not trying to bring your kids along on these long alpine trad routes, so what are the impacts that were causing friction? 

We were in Yosemite, in one of the massively crowded campgrounds. A baby in a neighboring campsite had been fussing all night long, costing my climbing partner their sleep. My partner told me that they thought people with kids that young shouldn't take their kids camping. My youngest is 1 month older than the crying baby, and my spouse and I brought our kids on this trip.

I took it pretty personally, some heated words were exchanged, and a 25 year friendship is over.

So now, how do I find someone as motivated as they were, to do the same things they were stoked on, but isn't just a total shithead about people making different choices in the most crowded campground in the US?

Stop trying to have it all I say. An infant on a campsite is inconsiderate to others. It's an infant. Infants are noisy, so why bring it? Either stay at home and care for it or go climbing. Mix your hobby and family later when they fit better. Your infant will grow fast and may be ready for a campsite in a year's time. Your child is only ready once it is quiet at night, no sooner. Just like a dog at a crag, is only a problem if the dog has the social skills for it. Recognise when something doesn't fit. I'm a parent by the way and advice some pragmatic separation. If family and hobby don't combine, then don't mix them. Everyone will be unhappy. Losing 25 year long climbing partner is not good. You won't replace that relationship easily, realistically probably never. Finding quality partners is a horror show. Stop idealising parenthood and be pragmatic reconcile with your climbing partner. Nobody is wrong here. It's just emotions. Project two years forward, you child is toddler and loves the outdoors and feels comfortable on campsites and who know, maybe your estranged partner turns out to be good company for your now 2-year-old, who knows...

If the context of your friendship is based entirely on being a climbing partner, any priority that isn’t climbing will probably get in the way. Climbing is a selfish pursuit, parenting is not. In life, there are partners for the sake of needing a someone to help get them to the top of their objective, and also partners who simply enjoy time spent together regardless of a goal or outcome, your level of fitness, or their quality of sleep. In climbing, partnership and friendship are not interchangeable.

To answer your question about finding a partner, I think part of it is being lucky enough to cross paths with someone with the qualities you’re looking for. When you think you’ve found someone qualified, ask them if they want to partner up and take it from there.

Noel Zwrote:

Stop trying to have it all I say. An infant on a campsite is inconsiderate to others. It's an infant. Infants are noisy, so why bring it? Either stay at home and care for it or go climbing. Mix your hobby and family later when they fit better. Your infant will grow fast and may be ready for a campsite in a year's time. Your child is only ready once it is quiet at night, no sooner. Just like a dog at a crag, is only a problem if the dog has the social skills for it. Recognise when something doesn't fit. I'm a parent by the way and advice some pragmatic separation. If family and hobby don't combine, then don't mix them. Everyone will be unhappy. Losing 25 year long climbing partner is not good. You won't replace that relationship easily, realistically probably never. Finding quality partners is a horror show. Stop idealising parenthood and be pragmatic reconcile with your climbing partner. Nobody is wrong here. It's just emotions. Project two years forward, you child is toddler and loves the outdoors and feels comfortable on campsites and who know, maybe your estranged partner turns out to be good company for your now 2-year-old, who knows...

Stellar advice,

Apologize to your partner, don’t bring your kid again, just do day trips .

Being a parent is a joy, and a massive sacrifice of your own previous goals and desires .

Change your goals to be realistic .

Best 

Ezra 

Lure your climbing friends into having kids as well. We've undertaken some longer climbing trips with another family and it worked out white well.

And remind people that most campgrounds are there for everyone, including families with kids, people with dogs and people who snore. Earplugs help.

My partner told me that they thought people with kids that young shouldn't take their kids camping.

Well your former partner is a goddamn idiot. But maybe you should have just let that comment go. 

For most of my climbing partners, I didn't grant them much access to the rest of my life. That keeps things pretty transactional. But of course like in your example petsfed, I have and had some really close relationships, with partners so close to me they could cut me to the quick with one sentence, if the chose. 

You balance it by making it clear to your partners, like you did I guess, that your family comes first :)

Petsfed 00wrote:

...  total shithead about people making different choices in the most crowded campground in the US?

Yeah - I think this is less about inconsiderate neighbors who brought an infant and more about a different kind of selfishness.  Did he/she try to find out why they made that choice?  I doubt it.

There’s a fork in the road with kids.  I’ve lost many good partners over the years.  We’re still friends, nothing really negative happens.  However, unless you’re already good friends outside of climbing, it’s generally been that parents seek other parents to camp and climb with and it’s for the better of everyone including the kids.  I don’t like participating in a risk sport with a new parent, for many reasons, is one of the most significant factors - next is that there becomes a whole lot less a parent is going to be truly interested in that doesn’t involve kids - ie, forget long committing routes a few states or further away.

I would say OP - if you want those partners for longer and more committing routes, you need to either find another parent, or block out the time to leave the kids behind.

Petsfed 00wrote:

We were in Yosemite, in one of the massively crowded campgrounds. A baby in a neighboring campsite had been fussing all night long, costing my climbing partner their sleep. My partner told me that they thought people with kids that young shouldn't take their kids camping. My youngest is 1 month older than the crying baby, and my spouse and I brought our kids on this trip.

I took it pretty personally, some heated words were exchanged, and a 25 year friendship is over.

So now, how do I find someone as motivated as they were, to do the same things they were stoked on, but isn't just a total shithead about people making different choices in the most crowded campground in the US?

That's where we all go wrong. Taking things personally. My husband tells me this all the time. What others say you can't control but you can control how it effects you or doesn't.  (Read the 4 Agreements) they weren't making that statement as a jab at you, they were tired and mad at the crying baby. 

I get your point that non parents wont understand the woes of having kids and parenting. But there are plenty of awesome people out there who either are parents themselves or have enough compassion for those who are that want to climb. I live outside the park and my most consistent climbing partners dont have kids. But guess what? They watch my kid at the base and put the rope up for me while I breastfeed or chase a 1yr old. 

My suggestion is to try Mountain project! Its a great place to find partners and depending on what these bigger alpine missions are and where, a lot of times (like in Yosemite) there's Facebook climbing pages for the area or places you can meet other climbers (like at a climber coffee) who might have a free day and have the same bucket list routes. 

I agree with a previous poster. Maybe apologizing and making good with your climbing partner is a better approach. Unless you really don't want this person in your life. But you can't expect people to understand or be nice about kids or their behavior it's just not going to happen. A non PARENT will NEVER understand what having kids is like until they do so themselves. 

Ezra Elliswrote:

Stellar advice,

Apologize to your partner, don’t bring your kid again, just do day trips .

Being a parent is a joy, and a massive sacrifice of your own previous goals and desires .

Change your goals to be realistic .

Best 

Ezra 

My children were silent through the night. He was pissed about people in a neighboring campsite, and vented to me about it. And got the opposite of sympathy for it.

Petsfed 00wrote:

We were in Yosemite, in one of the massively crowded campgrounds. A baby in a neighboring campsite had been fussing all night long, costing my climbing partner their sleep. My partner told me that they thought people with kids that young shouldn't take their kids camping. My youngest is 1 month older than the crying baby, and my spouse and I brought our kids on this trip.

I took it pretty personally, some heated words were exchanged, and a 25 year friendship is over.

So now, how do I find someone as motivated as they were, to do the same things they were stoked on, but isn't just a total shithead about people making different choices in the most crowded campground in the US?

You let a 25 year friendship go over that? 

Find a partner who also has kids.

Bill Wwrote:

You let a 25 year friendship go over that?

Seems a little myopic, nano.  He’s likely going to spend way more time with his family.  If we’re just counting hours together, very likely he has already.

The “it’s babies or me” choice started with his partner. 

Noel Zwrote:

Stop trying to have it all I say. An infant on a campsite is inconsiderate to others. It's an infant. Infants are noisy, so why bring it? Either stay at home and care for it or go climbing. Mix your hobby and family later when they fit better. Your infant will grow fast and may be ready for a campsite in a year's time. Your child is only ready once it is quiet at night, no sooner. Just like a dog at a crag, is only a problem if the dog has the social skills for it. Recognise when something doesn't fit. I'm a parent by the way and advice some pragmatic separation. If family and hobby don't combine, then don't mix them. Everyone will be unhappy. Losing 25 year long climbing partner is not good. You won't replace that relationship easily, realistically probably never. Finding quality partners is a horror show. Stop idealising parenthood and be pragmatic reconcile with your climbing partner. Nobody is wrong here. It's just emotions. Project two years forward, you child is toddler and loves the outdoors and feels comfortable on campsites and who know, maybe your estranged partner turns out to be good company for your now 2-year-old, who knows...

Seriously, so parents and families shouldn't go camping. Get real!  I find I'm getting tired of noisy, busy campgrounds and usually bring ear plugs. But it's not because of crying babies. It's noisy generators, camper alarms, giant diesel trucks idling, and people drinking and being rowdy late at night. If you go to a campground or even to dispersed campgrounds these days you get what you get and you don't throw a fit.

Bill Lawrywrote:

Seems a little myopic, nano.  He’s likely going to spend way more time with his family.  If we’re just counting hours together, very likely he has already.

The “it’s babies or me” choice started with his partner. 

It felt more along the lines of, if they had complained about the traffic in San Francisco, then said anybody who moves there must clearly have some kind of psychological damage. My ex-partner might not see me as part of the group they just skewered, but I sure as hell do.

I guess I'm coming to terms with just climbing with more parents, and having a lot of low-ambition trips until I find the right partners.

Petsfed 00wrote:

I guess I'm coming to terms with just climbing with more parents, and having a lot of low-ambition trips until I find the right partners.

It may very well be for the better.  My most esteemed partners have been those who have / had kids.

This is a great question. BITD (maybe) spouses sat quietly at home with the kids while dad did whatever all day or even longer. Watch this at youtu.be/va-VvkiGndk?t=990 Balancing obligations is much more complex now for most parents. Solo climbing (if you want to actually stay fit) is a critical piece of it. For me that can include home climbing wall, bouldering outside, gym climbing, flatiron scrambling and roped solo. Any of these is quick to get in and out of assuming you have a car packed with the essentials and can be done spur of the moment. When you have a partner available, it can be tricky since you are often moving on very different time scales. Separate cars can be a good idea and being flexible with options in case plan A is crowded is key. Avoiding getting caught up in a scene with lots of sitting around and chatting while someone takes forever working a route is important. Childless partners often chafe at any perceived push for speed and efficiency. You basically have to go by trial-and-error. Big objectives? Good luck. That's next level.

Ah campgrounds! We all have such (non) fond memories of our (least) favorite campground experiences.  We spent a couple of endless nights in a "campground at Lake Misurina in Italy which consisted of a flat field with no roads or dividing lines of any kind.  You just drove in anywhere and set up your tent anywhere.  People were arriving at all times of the middle of the night.  The first night we slept in twilight state of expectation of a tire rolling on our heads at any moment.  The second night, the tent zipper broke and we spent the night being devoured by mosquitos.  On the same trip, our campsite in a campground in Finale consisted of a postage size piece of land slanted at around 20% grade.  Of course we had set the tent with the broken zipper facing uphill. There was a torrential downpour and we ended up with a small river running through the tent.

But I digress, back to the USA.  Such a joy - smoky campfires everywhere with people having fun, screaming children running around having fun, noisy crowds sitting drinking and having fun.  But one thing all US campgrounds have in common are QUIET HOURS.  No matter how loud or crowded it is, you can have the expectation that after 10 PM, it's going to be quiet and you can sleep. Unless the people next to you have brought an innocent infant or toddler who has no way of understanding QUIET HOURS.  Those parents should be smart enough to understand the differences among camping with an infant, a toddler, a child, a teen.  If the crying baby was making noise during QUIET HOURS, your friend had a right to be annoyed.