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Girth hitch ice climbing anchors
Alex Langfield wrote: Trying to understand your cogitation on this Alex. There’s nothing stopping ANY anchor from failing, other than friction. In this case, to fail, you have to completely cut a strand and exceed 5-10kN for long enough for the cut ends to pull through. Unlikely enough for my tastes when it comes to meat sacks on ice. It seems you aren’t clear with some concepts when you state: “ 5kN is dynamic in this study, a fall would produce an insane amount of static force on the dynema”. |
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amga == hosers ifmga == closest thing that exists to a recognized doctorate in alpinism |
C Limenski wrote: AMGA = IFMGA so I'm a little confused here? But on topic, the CAI has a few videos of a factor 2 onto a cut girth hitch anchor with very little slip happening. I found it pretty convincing. Of course now I can't find the video, so maybe someone else wants to scour youtube for it... |
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the international federation of mountain guides is the same thing as the american mountain guides association? amga will give you the “american mountain guide” cert which is recognized by the imfga as equivalent to the imfga guide cert am i off base here? im not a guide but i spent some time talking to people/researching a few years ago and my thoughts stem from that slightly dated research and a quick google search to determine i wasn’t totally bonkers |
C Limenski wrote: The AMGA is a member of the IFMGA. "American Mountain Guide" is simply the trade name in the U.S. for the IFMGA license. Doesn't matter what country you certify in, you still get a pin at the end of it. I'm just confused how the AMGA can be hosers without the IFMGA also being hosers, since it's the same certification and standards whether done in France, Italy, Canada, New Zealand, U.S., etc. Or do you mean any AMGA certs short of the full pin are hosers? Or just that the organization is a bunch of hosers (except for those folks who have an IFMGA pin)? |
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hmmm mostly i think i’ve met a fair few individuals with an SPI who are excited to present themselves as AMGA guides (far far more than ive met with any other cert) and these people are not typically incredibly knowledgeable and may even be newer climbers. are those people actually hosers? probably not. mostly i imagine just stoked and under-educated/experienced. but, i made the leap to assume our friend here was misinterpreting these individuals for the ifmga and followed that leap with abrupt language. |
C Limenski wrote: Ah, copy that. Makes sense. Yeah, definitely not a great amount of education/marketing out there that seems to have made it to the general climbing community regarding differences between various certification levels. SPI is most definitely not the same as IFMGA. I do know some very knowledgeable SPIs, but as it's an entry level cert, most SPIs are indeed entry level. |
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SPIs are not supposed to describe themselves as “guides”. |
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I use sterling 12mm dyneema runners with the checkered pattern for my girth hitch anchors. Compared to 8 or 10mm slings without the pattern they seem way less likely to slip (for example if it was messy and not pre-tightened) and beefier so less likely to get cut. |
C Limenski wrote: guiding and alpinism are pretty different pursuits that often use very different techniques. ifmga == closest thing that exists to a recognized doctorate in guiding Being a great guide does not make one a great climber. Equally being a great climber does not make one a great guide. |
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You hosers just derailed my sweet girth hitch topic! |
Nick Sweeney wrote: Are you even qualified to start such a topic? |
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Anyone is qualified to start it. We just need someone qualified enough to end it. |
Dallin Carey wrote: This is the perfect summary! |
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Ryan Jenks mentioned in his newest video that he is looking to build a drop tower: Maybe he would be nice enough to do a drop tower test some day. |
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Years later, it turns out the Derek Debruin (who commented in this thread) did formal testing of girth hitch anchors. This is worth a read! https://staff.weber.edu/derekdebruin/research/girthhitch.pdf |
Nick Sweeney wrote: Does this meet the aforementioned criteria?
Edit to add: sorry it took me awhile ;) |
Derek DeBruin wrote: You make the criteria, now! Seriously though, thank you. I've really loved this girth hitch anchor for years now, and it's nice to finally have some data to back it up. |
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Great thread. My personal summary: Let's prioritize convenience as an important anchor quality, especially in the alpine. As Derek and Yann show, the GH is imperfectly redundant, and that's OK. Easy cleaning supersedes an unlikely scenario (cut dyneema sling, followed by lead fall). Just acknowledge there's a tradeoff: the GH is SSS but not totally SRENE. Girth Hitch seems most appropriate for: ✅ Guiding with minimal chance of lead fall ✅ Ice belaying with bulky gloves ✅ Leading in blocks with a novice belayer to clean the anchor ❌ Top-roping at a crag all day where sling could rub on rock ❌ Unattended, long-term anchors |
