Girth hitch ice climbing anchors

When building anchors for ice climbing, there are some slightly different considerations than when building rock anchors:

1. Ice anchors in good ice typically use two screws.  I rarely build 3+ screw anchors or incorporate V-threads, but this is always a judgement call. For the purposes of this post, I'll focus on two-piece anchors.
2. Knots tied in dyneema slings are notoriously difficult to untie. This is complicated further when wearing gloves and when the knot is frozen over.  This can cost a significant amount of time on a big day.

With those in mind, some recent online discussion of ice anchor techniques(and my own personal lack of hobbies other than climbing) has led me to try out several methods to build the most simple, safe and user-friendly anchor for ice climbing.

Perhaps the simplest option that meets my criteria is a simple pre-equalized overhand masterpoint with a carabiner clipped through the knot. It's important to use a carabiner with a completely clean nose, otherwise any it will catch when you try to undo the knot.  This method has served me well for several ice seasons. Tying the overhand takes a lot of sling material, but this is otherwise a good option.  

Recently, there's been some online discussion of girth hitch anchors, which use a locking carabiner as the masterpoint. Dale Remsberg, IFMGA guide, posted on Instagram recently:

In the comments of Dale's post, the question of redundancy came up.  Dale replied stating that in order for the girth hitch to slip, it would require a constant load of 6kN, which we can't do in recreational climbing.

Another recent discussion was on a Facebook ice climbing group.  Brent Peters (also a IFMGA guide) chimed in:
"That video[demonstrating the use of clove hitch anchors] needs to be updated based on new research conducted by the ACMG Technical Committee last fall. We are now recommending the girth hitch (on two strands) instead of the clove hitch at the focal point."

When asked about why the girth hitch is recommended over the clove, Brent said: "the clove hitch failed in slow pull with dyneema slings meaning there was creep when one leg failed." He also confirmed that the girth hitch did not fail in a slow pull test, and is stronger than a clove.

In my own testing at home and in the field, the girth hitch anchor is the easiest and fastest to build and disassemble.  You can also adjust the direction of pull very easily, even when people are tied in to the anchor.  Apparently these types of anchors (girth hitch and clove hitch) are used broadly in Europe.  Obviously, I'd love to read the findings of the testing that has been done - just haven't found anything online yet.  Anyone else using this method, or have other ideas?

Looks simple and effective and if the data supports its strength and redundancy, then great.

I have been wondering if anyone is doing something similar for rappel extensions.

i.e., one leg for the belay device and one leg for the anchor, with a double girth hitch on the harness.

Why not just use a magic X equalized on two screws?

Gumby the White wrote: Why not just use a magic X equalized on two screws?

Why would you? The girth hitch method seems far superior.

very interesting with the clove vs girth hitch information. are the data for the pull tests available?

Chris Blatchley wrote: very interesting with the clove vs girth hitch information. are the data for the pull tests available?

I'm hoping that someone will chime in with a link to the data/findings.

I've seen no discussion of the "Swamp" knot, as presented at about 11 minutes.  It's pretty slick, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpwY4vLEKYo. 

Nick Sweeney wrote:

Why would you? The girth hitch method seems far superior.

How does it seem superior?

Gumby the White wrote:

How does it seem superior?

I’m assuming you are talking about a magic X with no load limiter knots. The girth hitch anchor is just as fast to build and is redundant. No cost for a major benefit!

Gumby the White wrote:

How does it seem superior?

well for one if you read the full OP you would see it would survive a slow pull test with a cut leg.

Chris Blatchley wrote:

well for one if you read the full OP you would see it would survive a slow pull test with a cut leg.

I dont know how to read. I only understand data and numbers

I think this can be avoided using a locking draw between two screws and using one screw with a locker as the master point.

Not always the case depending on ice conditions, but a good way to avoid knots...

Also using the rope is never a bad idea and easier to untie.  It if you’re not swapping leads I can see the downside...

Ben Williams wrote: I think this can be avoided using a locking draw between two screws and using one screw with a locker as the master point.

Not always the case depending on ice conditions, but a good way to avoid knots...

Also using the rope is never a bad idea and easier to untie.  It if you’re not swapping leads I can see the downside...

Yes! That's a great technique, but I end up spending too much time trying to get the screws perfectly spaced.  When it works, it's great. I just use a long quickdraw, no lockers on the screw connection.

A good option to have in the toolkit, especially if you are going fast and light. Otherwise, the pre-tied quad is my first choice in most situations. The fixed point belay mentioned above is also good, but hasn't seemed to catch on here in the US.

Thanks for sharing, I was unaware of the new findings that the girth method is stronger than the clove.

 

The girth hitch anchor with a large rap ring as the masterpoint is also kinda cool. I’ll sometimes carry the SMC Rigging ring depending on the venue, and it’s nice to consider as part of the kit on the way up as well.

Ben Kelley wrote: Thanks for sharing, I was unaware of the new findings that the girth method is stronger than the clove.
May someone pls send me links to this data findings?
 

Nick Sweeney wrote:

I’m assuming you are talking about a magic X with no load limiter knots. The girth hitch anchor is just as fast to build and is redundant. No cost for a major benefit!

I haven’t seen nor read those findings / data tests but would love too if someone could share pls?

Nick Sweeney wrote: When building anchors for ice climbing, there are some slightly different considerations than when building rock anchors:

1. Ice anchors in good ice typically use two screws.  I rarely build 3+ screw anchors or incorporate V-threads, but this is always a judgement call. For the purposes of this post, I'll focus on two-piece anchors.
2. Knots tied in dyneema slings are notoriously difficult to untie. This is complicated further when wearing gloves and when the knot is frozen over.  This can cost a significant amount of time on a big day.

With those in mind, some recent online discussion of ice anchor techniques(and my own personal lack of hobbies other than climbing) has led me to try out several methods to build the most simple, safe and user-friendly anchor for ice climbing.

Perhaps the simplest option that meets my criteria is a simple pre-equalized overhand masterpoint with a carabiner clipped through the knot. It's important to use a carabiner with a completely clean nose, otherwise any it will catch when you try to undo the knot.  This method has served me well for several ice seasons. Tying the overhand takes a lot of sling material, but this is otherwise a good option.  

Recently, there's been some online discussion of girth hitch anchors, which use a locking carabiner as the masterpoint. Dale Remsberg, IFMGA guide, posted on Instagram recently:

In the comments of Dale's post, the question of redundancy came up.  Dale replied stating that in order for the girth hitch to slip, it would require a constant load of 6kN, which we can't do in recreational climbing.

Another recent discussion was on a Facebook ice climbing group.  Brent Peters (also a IFMGA guide) chimed in:
"That video[demonstrating the use of clove hitch anchors] needs to be updated based on new research conducted by the ACMG Technical Committee last fall. We are now recommending the girth hitch (on two strands) instead of the clove hitch at the focal point."

When asked about why the girth hitch is recommended over the clove, Brent said: "the clove hitch failed in slow pull with dyneema slings meaning there was creep when one leg failed." He also confirmed that the girth hitch did not fail in a slow pull test, and is stronger than a clove.

In my own testing at home and in the field, the girth hitch anchor is the easiest and fastest to build and disassemble.  You can also adjust the direction of pull very easily, even when people are tied in to the anchor.  Apparently these types of anchors (girth hitch and clove hitch) are used broadly in Europe.  Obviously, I'd love to read the findings of the testing that has been done - just haven't found anything online yet.  Anyone else using this method, or have other ideas?

I’d love to learn and see the slippage data especially if 1 screw blows out, is slippage worse when 1 leg side isn’t loaded etc 

I’d love to discuss this girth method for an extended rap possibility on 1 double length dyneema sling too... instead of (best) 2 separate basket slings on both tie in harness point (1 to locker rap device, other to locker anchor (for multiple raps) - what to you guys all think off: same double length dyneema/girth hitch to both harness tie in/clove hitch in the middle with a locker to rap device/end of sling to lock to anchor. When leaving anchor the locker from anchor is clip and locked back to harness. Staying lower off anchor at all time, no factor 2 possibility, clove slippage and breaking strength is an issue but we are dealing with rappelling forces only (not tested like this as far as I know). Prussia back up with Different locker on harness always.  lOther option is this girth anchor set up but replacing both screws with rap device and anchor (data available I didn’t see) 

While skeptical, I’m definitely reserving judgment until I see the data, test methods, and conditions.  

Interesting though.  It’s so obviously simple and easy, it begs the question  “why now”?  

Have we all just been needlessly bigoted against girth hitches for no reason ?
(I did unscientific tests recently on single strand loading of girth hitches on cord, and all failed at very low shock loads)