Help female climbers in Afghanistan through Ascend Athletics

FrankPSwrote:

The Soviets completed their withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989. From what I've read, the Taliban wasn't formed until 1992 or 1994. 

I don't think the Mujahideen fighting the Soviets were the same as the Taliban.

I don't think the US supported the Taliban, were they?

Ah! I will stand corrected, sir. Mujahideen, indeed, at that time. Still intimidating.

40+ years of not so great, sometimes better, mostly...not. We have a fair amount of refugees here in Boise, from various points in time.

:-)

As far as blame, Bush-Obama-Trump-Biden for sure (especially Bush), but in the end it really comes down to us, the American people. This is exactly why we all need to stay engaged, get educated about what goes on in the world, avoid confirmation bias and mis/disinformation… and pressure our leaders… and VOTE. In my eyes, that’s where the real blame lies—with us.

As to the topic, it sounds like a group worthy of support. 

FrankPSwrote:

The Soviets completed their withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989. From what I've read, the Taliban wasn't formed until 1992 or 1994. 

I don't think the Mujahideen fighting the Soviets were the same as the Taliban.

I don't think the US supported the Taliban, did they?

Actually there was a good deal of overlap. Mullah Omar for example who founded the Taliban was also a Mujahideen who fought against the Soviets. 

Might be behind a paywall, but the Washington Post has picked up the Ascend story.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/19/ascend-afghan-girls-mountain-climbing/

Daniel Joderwrote:

pressure our leaders… and VOTE. In my eyes, that’s where the real blame lies—with us.

Haven't we been voting for like, hundreds of years??

Sure seems to be working.

ErikaNWwrote:

Life is changing dramatically and quickly for women in Afghanistan. Ascend has been helping and empowering Afghan women for years through climbing. They are seeking your help now - trying to get as many out of the country as they can, and continue paying salaries/providing financial support to women who may no longer be allowed to work.

The linked article has suggestions for ways to help from making donations (501c3) to contacting your representatives to expedite transport out of Afghanistan.

Please consider. Thanks.

https://www.climbing.com/places/

https://www.ascendathletics.org/

Concern for others and making an effort to help - good for you and many, many thanks.

5SevenKevin Morriswrote:

Haven't we been voting for like, hundreds of years??

Sure seems to be working.

Country /  % of voting age population

1. Turkey (2018)  88.97%
2. Sweden (2018)  82.08%
3. Australia (2019)  80.79%
4. Belgium (2019)  77.94%
5. South Korea (2017)  77.92%
6. Israel (2020)  77.90%
7. Netherlands (2017)  77.31%
8. Denmark (2019)  76.38%
9. Hungary (2018)  71.65%
10. Norway (2017)  70.59%
11. Finland (2019)  69.43%
12. Germany (2017)  69.11%
13. France (2017)  67.93%
14. Mexico (2018)  65.98%
15. Poland (2020)  65.40%
16. Slovakia (2020)  65.39%
17. Italy (2018)  65.28%
18. Austria (2019)  64.40%
19. Greece (2019)  63.53%
20. New Zealand (2020)  63.16%
21. Canada (2019)  62.42%
22. United Kingdom (2019)  62.32%
23. Portugal (2019)  61.13%
24. Spain (2019)  60.29%
25. Lithuania (2019)  59.28%
26. Czech Republic (2017)  58.02%
27. Colombia (2018)  57.28%
28. Ireland (2020)  56.65%
29. Estonia (2019)  56.45%
30. United States (2016)  55.72%

Pew research

Another bump for this.

5SevenKevin Morriswrote:

Haven't we been voting for like, hundreds of years??

Sure seems to be working.

Ha. If voting worked they would make it illegal. 

Bump

Just donated - things are going to be crazy in Afghanistan for a while, hopefully this will help a bit.

God bless you Erika for helping and posting

Fail Fallingwrote:

Country /  % of voting age population

1. Turkey (2018)  88.97%
2. Sweden (2018)  82.08%
3. Australia (2019)  80.79%
4. Belgium (2019)  77.94%
5. South Korea (2017)  77.92%
6. Israel (2020)  77.90%
7. Netherlands (2017)  77.31%
8. Denmark (2019)  76.38%
9. Hungary (2018)  71.65%
10. Norway (2017)  70.59%
11. Finland (2019)  69.43%
12. Germany (2017)  69.11%
13. France (2017)  67.93%
14. Mexico (2018)  65.98%
15. Poland (2020)  65.40%
16. Slovakia (2020)  65.39%
17. Italy (2018)  65.28%
18. Austria (2019)  64.40%
19. Greece (2019)  63.53%
20. New Zealand (2020)  63.16%
21. Canada (2019)  62.42%
22. United Kingdom (2019)  62.32%
23. Portugal (2019)  61.13%
24. Spain (2019)  60.29%
25. Lithuania (2019)  59.28%
26. Czech Republic (2017)  58.02%
27. Colombia (2018)  57.28%
28. Ireland (2020)  56.65%
29. Estonia (2019)  56.45%
30. United States (2016)  55.72%

Pew research

What...exactly... does this prove? What does eligible voting population have to do with the duration we've been able to vote for?

Pew research more 

Wow - I am blown away by all of you who have expressed support and donated. I know they appreciate it and will put the donations to good use. I wish there was something more to do. Hope everyone can get some good outside time this weekend.

Robert P wrote:

This is what selective memory looks like — Trump initiated this whole fucking withdrawal.

And no, it’s not just women cannot exercise. Women are not allowed to go outside without a male escort, women are not allowed to fucking READ, the list goes on. Women lose BIGLY.

Can we not turn this into a fucking pissing match for once? These are real people with real lives in a country that has known nothing but conflict for over forty years.

What's your point Robert? We should get every woman (and not men or boys, of course) out of the country? The country has no hope for its future and we should run back in with our military?

There is no selective memory. I'm fully aware of every misstep politically from EVERYONE. Joe owns the exit, however. Let's not get diverted from the idea of helping where Joe did not. The question is who do we help?

Do we also help the women who skateboard, bicycle, or the Afghan Girls Robotics Team? It appears that many Western NGO's may have made the same mistake as the US military, congress, presidents, advisors, talking heads, etc. in thinking the good times would last forever. Now it looks like many put Afghan girls in harms way if working alongside Americans is a red flag for the Taliban or engaging in climbing. An orderly withdraw of Americans with 100'000's of Afgans in tow was never going to take place. So who goes and who stays? And who gets help and who doesn't? My first reaction is that the people whose lives are literally on the line (for helping the Great Satan USofA) should get help leaving the country, or help with financial assistance if forced to stay. 

Girls who climb are usually the least of my worries unless their lives are in danger. However, since we so royally screwed over so many with this exit, I think that Americans reaching out to Afgans is an idea worth executing even if on a small scale. My only concern is that we are ignoring those who may actually be killed, innocent of anything truly evil. Piss over that if you want.

Lee Chandlerwrote:

I deployed to Iraq (08-09) and Afghanistan, (10-11) so naturally this week has been one of reflection for me. There seems to be a narrative right now of disgruntled and jaded vets, but for me I am generally at peace with my service over there. I do believe at the time I was on the right side of history and the intentions were good. For me and I think for most Aghans, it was the politicians who dropped the ball and every administration and member of Congress from Bush to Biden shares in the responsibility. Afghanistan certainly did not fail as a result of the people on the ground, to include the service men and women who served over there and those operating organizations like the above mentioned. 

I know its easy to question someone's will to fight from the safety of a keyboard in the U.S., but speaking from my experiences, which I do acknowledge were over a decade ago, the Afghans that served along us fought as hard as anyone and generally suffered on a far greater level than us. I tend to be skeptical of those who are lobbying to stay longer or send more troops, as the loudest voices tend to be from those who never served, or will never serve. 

When I saw the OP, I had a little skepticism myself and wondered some of the same, however, I took a minute to look up the organization and read about them. They seem to be doing great work and have done some great things, likewise, their intentions seem good. I am just not sure how any of that could be interpreted negatively and I commend the OP and the people bumping for trying to help out in any way that they can. I tend to agree with P Adams on this one, its kind of an easy thread, you read and donate, or you read and move along. I probably didn't need to say as much as I did myself, but did want to address, "just wondering what you all are thinking."

Thanks for the POV. I know its easy to defend someone's will to fight from the safety of a keyboard in the U.S. I saw no effort to defend much of anything from anyone. 20 years, trillions of dollars, millions of man hours, and I didn't see a real battle to save a single city. Agree with just about everything else.

And as I pointed out, no reason not to help the cause. Just wondering, which you did not address, why the urgent need to help these women first and not the very people whose lives are actually in danger for helping the men and women of the US armed forces? Do we focus our efforts on getting women climbers out of the country with US resources or those with a Taliban target on their back?

Jamila W wrote:

My sheets came from there.

Nothing but the best sheets.

Robert and Teton and whoever else. There is a thread on the politics section for this.

But I'm sure ErikaNW appreciates the bump.

Teton Climberwrote:

Thanks for the POV. I know its easy to defend someone's will to fight from the safety of a keyboard in the U.S. I saw no effort to defend much of anything from anyone. 20 years, trillions of dollars, millions of man hours, and I didn't see a real battle to save a single city. Agree with just about everything else.

And as I pointed out, no reason not to help the cause. Just wondering, which you did not address, why the urgent need to help these women first and not the very people whose lives are actually in danger for helping the men and women of the US armed forces? Do we focus our efforts on getting women climbers out of the country with US resources or those with a Taliban target on their back?

Because you're on a climbing forum?? 

If you have other ways you choose to help, or groups you decide to support, go for it! Personally, I can't contribute to everything. This group is legit, is there, knows what they need to do....

I think you can throw a dart, at the moment, and it's highly likely whoever you give money to (assuming they are legit), is doing pretty much the same things right now. Scrambling to assure some kind of safety for the people they work with directly.

Fun factoid on NPR. The Afghani parliament has more women in it than there are women in the U.S. congress....hmmmm.

Best (and a bump), Helen

Teton Climberwrote:just wondering, which you did not address, why the urgent need to help these women first and not the very people whose lives are actually in danger for helping the men and women of the US armed forces? Do we focus our efforts on getting women climbers out of the country with US resources or those with a Taliban target on their back?

Thanks for highlighting the other groups. Maybe I can swing small amounts to them also. It seems like you’re taking a position that donating/helping Ascend (as individuals) means we are putting them ahead of others, or that we don’t care about the others. Saying I care about the women associated with Ascend doesn’t mean I can’t also care about the interpreters, people who assisted with intelligence, fought alongside us… I do care. Very much. Definitely not saying the US should put them 1st - but they should at least consider their situation.

Please don’t discount the real danger these women are in. Ascend also teaches girls to read, supports women working, girls’ schools…. It’s not just a group of women going cragging on the weekends for pure recreation.

Let me ask… is climbing important to you personally? I assume it is since you’re here. What if you were not allowed to climb because of your sex/gender, and faced physical assault (flogging, stoning, or even execution) if you decided to climb anyway? Climbing is more than recreation to me - it really is identity. I guess that impacts how I feel about this situation.

I do appreciate that you’ve engaged in a civil way on this - better than the usual MP dumpster fire.

And….. bump!