Pikes Peak bolt chopping resumes due to guide book publication

Kevinmurraywrote:

Nope never removed a bolted anchor at turkey rocks nor placed anything on straw turkey, anchors or otherwise. Plus that route is a walk off.

"Darren, the anchors of webbing were from the early and mid '80s. The ones I put in were aircraft cable with cable clamps and rings. I left the springs in '93 and have no idea what has been put in since then. I do know that, if I still lived there, Turkey Rocks would be of a more pristine nature" - Was this comment lying or are you just not remembering?

Ryan Never climbs wrote:

Having spent time in places where the “local guide book” ( might be a pdf or chicken scratch on paper) is passed around by locals for free and places that have a super taco I’d say it’s obvious what retail distribution of guide books does. Parking is a premium more often then not and some of these areas get highly impacted even just from being in MP.

Personally I thought garden of the gods and pikes peak were very cool, especially skiing pikes peak. I got info from some locals and it really wasn’t all that hard to find info and most locals know a little bit about the climbing up there. I totally get the old culture of bar side / gear shop beta and prefer that interaction with a community I’m not familiar with. That said I also understand the need to publish information to “spread out” local climbers.

It sounds like both parties have the community at heart but one with the pen and one with power tools.

In the last few years as gyms have started sprouting like invasive weeds I have to say that the "spread out" theory is BS, all it does is bring more vansions to the small parking areas and anyone who has been climbing long enough knows it. Just by looking at all the people posting up their "FAs" on rock that has been climbed on for 40-50 years its obvious that the need for attention, in a world where we are just tiny specs of carbon, is growing bigly.

Those scratch paper drawings being passed around should be coveted and not hung up on the gym message board with an authors name attached to it IMO. Wait until some d-bag publishes a book on the secret sport crags of Moab or Farley MA because its coming and there is no law against it.

Alex Zachrelwrote:

"Darren, the anchors of webbing were from the early and mid '80s. The ones I put in were aircraft cable with cable clamps and rings. I left the springs in '93 and have no idea what has been put in since then. I do know that, if I still lived there, Turkey Rocks would be of a more pristine nature" - Was this comment lying or are you just not remembering?

The anchors I put in were on vanishing point and the great white crime not on straw turkey. No need for them on straw turkey, that was done later by others.

Kevinmurraywrote:

The anchors I put in were on vanishing point and the great white crime not on straw turkey. No need for them on straw turkey, that was done later by others.

I have very much enjoyed those anchors on Vanishing Point, so thank you.

Yeah I got tired of all the mangy old slings and once saw people set up a top rope on the crap slings on the point and traverse over and use crap on the crime  to do laps so it was time for anchors.

Kevinmurraywrote:

Yeah I got tired of all the mangy old slings and once saw people set up a top rope on the crap slings on the point and traverse over and use crap on the crime  to do laps so it was time for anchors.

When I moved here I saw people sharing one anchor for those two 5.8s on the left at Highwire Crag in Clear Creek Canyon. I put a second anchor in within a week.

T G wrote:

Jason Blevins has written an article about this for the independent Colorado Sun: https://coloradosun.com/2021/08/10/pikes-peak-bolt-war-rock-climbing/ 

Fairly well written until they started quoting Green who has written guidebooks for states he doesn't even reside in while upsetting locals who kept things on the DL.

M Mwrote:

Fairly well written until they started quoting Green who has written guidebooks for states he doesn't even reside in while upsetting locals who kept things on the DL.

Aw, Stewart visited those states he wrote guide books for, and so did my friend Susan who has authored many guide books for waterfalls and hot springs. 

Kevinmurraywrote:

The anchors I put in were on vanishing point and the great white crime not on straw turkey. No need for them on straw turkey, that was done later by others.

You didn't put up either of these routes, yet felt compelled to add convenience anchors to them.  oh the irony...

Tim Stichwrote:

Aw, Stewart visited those states he wrote guide books for, and so did my friend Susan who has authored many guide books for waterfalls and hot springs. 

Oh yeah, locals always love sharing their local hot springs with out of staters! Susan should be really proud!

slimwrote:

You didn't put up either of these routes, yet felt compelled to add convenience anchors to them.  oh the irony...

No I did not but I can probably bet that I did them more than just about anybody else. I put them in to get rid of the eyesore of all the trashy slings. The convenience was already there I just made it look better. I did not do it because I cared about any bodies safety and while you can climb to the top of the rock from those routes nobody does.

M Mwrote:

Oh yeah, locals always love sharing their local hot springs with out of staters! Susan should be really proud!

And get this, she and Stewart are friends! 

Will I need to bring a stick clip on these new bolted routes? 

Alex Langfieldwrote:

Will I need to bring a stick clip on these new unbolted routes? 

FTFY

Still kinda waiting for info on these routes on MP....seems people are clearly supportive of gettin the info out there....

Boomers...

I know Bo and he is a good guy. I have also climbed some on the peak, managing to find the flame on my own (second attempt) and later asking Bo for info on the Pericle which he was happy to share and even came and climbed with me for the day on my first visit. I also really appreciate places like the Peak in that not everything is documented to the T. For me at least part of climbing is the adventure, the uncertainty, the risk taking and risk evaluation. Its should be ok to have and preserve adventurous areas just like its ok to have indian creeks or grid bolted sport crags. I think Eldo is a good example of the former...

Maybe the placement of new anchors in a historical area was an equally questionable and unilateral move compared to chopping bolts and should be part of a community discussion as well. I don't pretend to have all the details and won't comment more on this controversy.

What I will say is that this whole thread and the internet lynch mob totally sucks and fills me with negativity which is one of the reasons I now seldomly visit this site nor do I have motivation to share new information. Carry on.

So, I guess I'm a bit confused about the whole "preserving the adventure" argument. From what I can see, no one is advocating for grid-bolting Pike's. And supposedly, there are "elders" all around who are happy to give you the beta if you ask, and even take you out there to show you where these climbs are. If you're being led out there by an "elder", isn't that less adventurous than interpreting the beta from a guidebook? You literally have someone showing you around. And when the guidebook is published, how exactly does that prevent you from wandering around out there and finding the climbs on your own?

yawn

Andrew Krajnikwrote:

So, I guess I'm a bit confused about the whole "preserving the adventure" argument. From what I can see, no one is advocating for grid-bolting Pike's. And supposedly, there are "elders" all around who are happy to give you the beta if you ask, and even take you out there to show you where these climbs are. If you're being led out there by an "elder", isn't that less adventurous than interpreting the beta from a guidebook? You literally have someone showing you around. And when the guidebook is published, how exactly does that prevent you from wandering around out there and finding the climbs on your own?

You are misconstruing adventurous and no one advocates grid bolting, it just happens naturally when norms and traditions slip like they are on PP.