Pikes Peak bolt chopping resumes due to guide book publication

Keep in mind Kevinmurray is the same guy who keeps chopping bolted anchors at Turkey Rock in favor of an old rusty cable anchor... 

T Dwrote:

Keep in mind Kevinmurray is the same guy who keeps chopping bolted anchors at Turkey Rock in favor of an old rusty cable anchor... 

Read the comments on Straw Turkey to have an idea of who he is. He used a straw man argument there, much like he is with the overbolting argument here.

T Dwrote:

Keep in mind Kevinmurray is the same guy who keeps chopping bolted anchors at Turkey Rock in favor of an old rusty cable anchor... 

Oh, nice! I have always loved that shitty cable anchor there.

Tim Stichwrote:

Oh, nice! I have always loved that shitty cable anchor there.

And we better leave it there and definitely not replace it with bolts. That way, we can preserve the pristine nature of Turkey Rock. Because, you know, replacing that cable with bolts would be lowering the climb to sport ascender status.

John Texwrote:

And we better leave it there and definitely not replace it with bolts. That way, we can preserve the pristine nature of Turkey Rock. Because, you know, replacing that cable with bolts would be lowering the climb to sport ascender status.

Bolted anchors automatically attract gym climbers, who then fail to learn how to make anchors on cables and piles of sun-bleached webbing, thus crippling their skills and causing deaths.

Nope never removed a bolted anchor at turkey rocks nor placed anything on straw turkey, anchors or otherwise. Plus that route is a walk off.

Kevinmurraywrote:

...Were site evaluations done by experienced individuals to determine if bolts were needed and supported by the community and a survey taken? Probably not. 

Unfortunately you are the only experienced climber left on this earth, and therefore we are all waiting with bated breath for you to fire these routes ground up, evaluating on the way.  does this bolt pass muster, or must it be destroyed!?!?  Please, oh benevolent warrior of glory days long past, exalt us with carved tablets from high above, declaring which bolts are righteous and which ones are wicked.

LOLZ....  you remind me of all those middle aged pudgy white guys ripping on simone biles.  a bunch of nobodies who have never done anything.  it's like they almost made the JV team when they were a senior, and just can't get over it.

Todd Berlier wrote:

Tim,

I respectfully ask you to lock the thread. it has served its purpose. now its worse than my 9 and 11 year olds trying to decide what movie to watch.

and yes, ill see myself out.

For once we agree.

this is boring af

Before we lock this thread, where are these routes on MP?

Daniel Chode Riderwrote:

For once we agree.

this is boring af

We lock threads because they’re boring? 

R Gwrote:

We lock threads because they’re boring? 

We should.

Let's just keep this thread open and see if B and B do anymore chopping on Pikes now that they have been outed, shall we?

Nice pic. You should probably clarify the source. 

Chad Millerwrote:

Nice pic. You should probably clarify the source. 

garden of the gods topo, 1979. i’m sure the choppers have seen it. 

Many of us viewing the thread have not though. 

Chopping the bolts was wrong.

• Writing a new guide book generally does not result in this extreme behavior. It sounds like more is going on here.
• Yes, a new guide means more people know where to find routes. But, this location will never become a destination crag if for no other reason than climbers are cheap and will not pay the added fee for the amount and type of climbing on Pikes Peak. (Let's not confuse this with world renown destinations like Rifle where the fee helps to maintain a high use area). The guide may serve the few locals and fewer adventure climbers looking for the obscure crags and routes after having ticked the classics. 
• Guide books rarely make the author much when you figure the cost per hour for specialty locations like Pikes Peak.
• Bolting from the top down is a not a new norm.  Climbing has evolved to include taking in to consideration of the safety of those who follow in your footsteps. The guide book author clearly states his approach was to minimize bolts when possible and safe. 
• Chopping bolts and the storm that behavior causes in the community looks bad to land managers and non-climbers. This is not new news. It only takes a few extremists to cause land managers to step in and make the rules for the whole community. Usually the rules prohibit development of new lines. I hope that the C. Springs community has a strong relationship with PPNF and points out that a few bad apples are just a few bad apples.
• Targeting the routes of one individual suggests this is a personal vendetta. I would hope that the friends of the choppers would intervene before more extreme personal attacks occur.
• Climbing continues to evolve. It's unfortunate that individuals do not.

For F!@#$ sake people. Chopping bolts ruins it for everyone. Just grow the F up.

mountain trollwrote:

For F!@#$ sake people. Chopping bolts ruins it for everyone. Just grow the F up.

Many could say that about guidebooks these days also, its a two way street. I wonder where the middle ground could be here?

M Mwrote:

Many could say that about guidebooks these days also, its a two way street. I wonder where the middle ground could be here?

I mean, folks can literally say whatever they want.  Doesn't make it true.  You can totally put whatever words you want in any order and write them on the internet or scream em into your pillow or tell em to your tinder date.

What a world.

Personally, I like guidebooks.  

I like that folks aren't lining up for the 4 climbs that have a good rating on FB.  It's better for the climbs, it's better for the climbers, it's better for me.

Better for you? I dunno.  Couldn't say.