Trad Dads and Bad Crag Dogs

Out climbing multi-pitch yesterday and fellow climbers, whom I never saw except from far away, had tied their dog up to a tree at the base of the cliff. Owners ended up traversing above us and knocked some large blocks off a trade route while their dog proceeded to bark nonstop for hours, singing the song of his people. I was tempted to go unleash the mangy mutt (go find your people Fido) but decided against it. What's acceptable retribution, or perhaps better, what's the best course of action in this situation for future behavior modification (for humans not the dog). Genuinely interested to hear from dog owners. Has anyone ever approached you in a way where you didn't feel defensive?

Their chance at civility was lost at the first trundle amigo, abandon compassion and really tell 'em how you really feel. 

::flamethrowers turning on::

I give this four pages. 

I'm an old lady, 4'11", so I get away with stuff guys might not.

If someone is stupid, I just yell at them....but, the kind patient side also explains the "why" of it.

Re dogs at the crag, this season at City of Rocks, I've been speaking to most of the dog people (climbers) I run into. Nicely reminding the climbers with dogs, to be nicely reminding all the other climbers with dogs, that it's a dogs on leash only thing, and under the control of someone, at all times, no exceptions. I remind them, gently, it's an access issue, for climbers. With so many new people just out camping, all it would take is just one of them loudly complaining....

And that could be it, for dogs allowed at crags, on trails, anywhere away from a parking lot. It's so much easier to just say "no", as a land manager.

In your case? That's just bad dog people. A crag equivalent of being left in a parked car.

Yeah, it's hard to speak up to people, but sometimes, it's necessary. Even yelling at them. I've only done that a very few times, the main one being when young teens were endangering a terrified little kid, trying to force her up 4th class "scrambling". 

It's a tough judgement call, what to say, how to say it, or speaking up at all.

If the people were entirely out of sight, for the whole time you were there, and the dog was clearly distressed, like in the sun, no water, that sorta thing? Then imo you'd be justified taking charge of the pup, leaving a note, that you took them back to camp, a shelter, or whatever.

Never ever would it be reasonable to unleash a domestic dog to fend for itself. That's ridiculous and cruel, same as if you personally dumped them somewhere yourself.

Best, Helen

Old lady Hwrote:

I'm an old lady, 4'11", so I get away with stuff guys might not.

If someone is stupid, I just yell at them....but, the kind patient side also explains the "why" of it.

Re dogs at the crag, this season at City of Rocks, I've been speaking to most of the dog people (climbers) I run into. Nicely reminding the climbers with dogs, to be nicely reminding all the other climbers with dogs, that it's a dogs on leash only thing, and under the control of someone, at all times, no exceptions. I remind them, gently, it's an access issue, for climbers. With so many new people just out camping, all it would take is just one of them loudly complaining....

And that could be it, for dogs allowed at crags, on trails, anywhere away from a parking lot. It's so much easier to just say "no", as a land manager.

In your case? That's just bad dog people. A crag equivalent of being left in a parked car.

Yeah, it's hard to speak up to people, but sometimes, it's necessary. Even yelling at them. I've only done that a very few times, the main one being when young teens were endangering a terrified little kid, trying to force her up 4th class "scrambling". 

It's a tough judgement call, what to say, how to say it, or speaking up at all.

If the people were entirely out of sight, for the whole time you were there, and the dog was clearly distressed, like in the sun, no water, that sorta thing? Then imo you'd be justified taking charge of the pup, leaving a note, that you took them back to camp, a shelter, or whatever.

Never ever would it be reasonable to unleash a domestic dog to fend for itself. That's ridiculous and cruel, same as if you personally dumped them somewhere yourself.

Best, Helen

Ya. No problem speaking up when needed. Unfortunately, owners were out of sight and ear shot by the time the dog began serenading the crag. I guess the question is, barring interaction which is obviously preferable. Do you just grin and bear it or get creative (or ridiculous and cruel)?

Jake Pwrote:

Ya. No problem speaking up when needed. Unfortunately, owners were out of sight and ear shot by the time the dog began serenading the crag. I guess the question is, barring interaction which is obviously preferable. Do you just grin and bear it or get creative (or ridiculous and cruel)?

It isn't any fault of the dog. Me being me, I'd check on the pooch, see if it was friendly, and likely take care of what it needed, including giving up my water or moving it to shade. It's a living thing, rocks aren't, the climb will be there another day. All of this assuming it's been going on for awhile.

And, if the owners showed up, they'd get a nice talk...or a reaming, depending on how they treated me.

But, that's me. I'm a westerner, grew up small town, and understand there's dogs that live and work outside...and pets. A tied up dog, is in a bad place, most places here, where there's climbing, if it's remote enough some ding dong thinks its okay to do that. Multipitch, that's just stupid. 

People usually know if they're doing something shameful, and if they don't, and an innocent is involved, I feel it's up to me to step up and speak up, and take action if needed. Again, I'm very well aware it's wildly different for me, than for many. But? That then adds to my obligation, if you happen to be my partner, for instance. I can do that, and maybe get a good outcome. A very nice guy, no matter what, it can escalate, fast.

It's the same old answer as everything....

It depends. 

But? At least you care...maybe? If you're merely annoyed that some asshats did this to annoy you, well, whatever, but don't take it out on the dog, who has no choice whatever.

If you're fishing for creative ugliness toward the dog, just for grins? I'm out, and hope we don't ever cross paths in the real world.

Best, Helen

That’s why I have my dog take the first pitch. He is a natural born leader, has a clear sense of direction and the partner I leave behind can cause more problems than the dog ever could!

I always leave my gym climbers in a shaded playpen with water and plenty of bouldering videos while I do multi pitch

Jake Pwrote:

Out climbing multi-pitch yesterday and fellow climbers, whom I never saw except from far away, had tied their dog up to a tree at the base of the cliff. Owners ended up traversing above us and knocked some large blocks off a trade route while their dog proceeded to bark nonstop for hours, singing the song of his people. I was tempted to go unleash the mangy mutt (go find your people Fido) but decided against it. What's acceptable retribution, or perhaps better, what's the best course of action in this situation for future behavior modification (for humans not the dog). Genuinely interested to hear from dog owners. Has anyone ever approached you in a way where you didn't feel defensive?

Go somewhere else.....aside from the fact that you sound like a karen, why on earth would you climb under anyone on a multipitch...specially if rock fall has already been observed?

David Draperwrote:

I always leave my gym climbers in a shaded playpen with water and plenty of bouldering videos while I do multi pitch

no joke, there used to be a regular at my local gym who would tie their dog up outside while they climbed inside...for hours...

If the owner is out of sight and ear shot. I would go see if the dog is nice. If the dog is nice and just needs some attention and won’t stop barking. I would probably bring the dog over to where we were climbing and let it hang out with us till the owner got back. Win win for everyone in my book. 

Someone who abandons their dog like that to stress out and doesn’t care that’s it’s barking and being annoying likely won’t respond well to any criticism, but I would still do it nicely and expect a rude response but maybe they’ll think twice next time.

“Hey dude, your dog was stressed out and barking a lot when you were up on the climb.” 

I can't speak to others failures with their dogs as I have my own. I was once out at a cliff that essentially had no one ever going to it. A beautiful 1100 foot high wall. Was going to go do a few solo pitches and rap. Had taken my pup out there previously with no issue, she stayed at the base and sniffed around. This day, pup decides to do the first free solo ascent of a new line to get up to me over 100 feet up. I almost shit my pants. 

Next time out, a place with no routes on it, a beautiful 1400 foot slab, as I'm traversing cross country to get to the slab, I didn't realize that there was an unmarked (ie, not on the topo) cliff growing larger and larger directly below. I got cliffed out in front of me, about 300' tall cliff, the damn dog is going right to the edge, scaring the hell out of me. So I chose to go straight down thinking I could get around this cliff. Nope, when I discovered the cliff below and I though the dog was going to go for it. Scared the hell out of me again. 

Had her out yesterday just hiking, she went after a rodent that ran right into the poison oak. I'd get rid of her but then my family would hate me. I bought her a climbing harness but haven't roped her up yet, just easier to leave her home.

Bringing your dog to do anything where your plans involve all members of the party leaving the ground is really bad form, IMO. Beyond all of the bad etiquette being discussed here, tying the dog up to something can put it in a seriously bad situation if some kind of mountain cat or bear approaches the area. I don’t even like to think about it. Don’t get me started on rattlesnakes.

Please leave your dogs at home.

Signed,

Animal lover

Big Bwrote:

why on earth would you climb under anyone on a multipitch...specially if rock fall has already been observed?

Because it's there 

Big Bwrote:

Go somewhere else.....aside from the fact that you sound like a karen, why on earth would you climb under anyone on a multipitch...specially if rock fall has already been observed?

Hahaha, guessing you just need to a daily dose of feeling better about yourself; try and have a better day.

Jake Pwrote:

Hahaha, guessing you just need to a daily dose of feeling better about yourself; try and have a better day.

are you effing serious? 

you go talk to them like an adult.  tell them respectfully that their dog was barking all day and was a nuisance to everyone at the crag.   perhaps frame it as a question so it’s less confrontational i.e. “does your dog always loudly bark nonstop when you leave him alone at the crag?”

if they go agro on you, then just let it go.  you spoke up, they responded poorly, what else can you do?  fight them?  take a shit on the hood of their car?  there are some crazy people out there but most people out in the world are reasonable human beings.

yes these dog owners are asshats for leaving their unruly dog tied up at the crag, but letting dog off leash in the woods would be an incredibly inhumane thing to do.  

BryanOCwrote:

are you effing serious? 

you go talk to them like an adult.  tell them respectfully that their dog was barking all day and was a nuisance to everyone at the crag.   perhaps frame it as a question so it’s less confrontational i.e. “does your dog always loudly bark nonstop when you leave him alone at the crag?”

if they go agro on you, then just let it go.  you spoke up, they responded poorly, what else can you do?  fight them?  take a shit on the hood of their car?  there are some crazy people out there but most people out in the world are reasonable human beings.

yes these dog owners are asshats for leaving their unruly dog tied up at the crag, but letting dog off leash in the woods would be an incredibly inhumane thing to do.  

Entirely too reasonable and mature for this forum. Get outta here with that, I want to hear more chest puffing "if it was me, I'd have done xyz".

For real though, it's amazing how many people think the remedy for shitty behavior of others is to behave shitty themselves.

I'm a dog owner and support well behaved dogs being at the crag ... for single pitch.  It's ridiculous to me that you think leaving your dog at the base while you climb up a large wall isn't going to put stress / pressure on your animal.  I've been in this situation at some PNW crags.  

Billcoewrote:

I can't speak to others failures with their dogs as I have my own. I was once out at a cliff that essentially had no one ever going to it. A beautiful 1100 foot high wall. Was going to go do a few solo pitches and rap. Had taken my pup out there previously with no issue, she stayed at the base and sniffed around. This day, pup decides to do the first free solo ascent of a new line to get up to me over 100 feet up. I almost shit my pants. 

Next time out, a place with no routes on it, a beautiful 1400 foot slab, as I'm traversing cross country to get to the slab, I didn't realize that there was an unmarked (ie, not on the topo) cliff growing larger and larger directly below. I got cliffed out in front of me, about 300' tall cliff, the damn dog is going right to the edge, scaring the hell out of me. So I chose to go straight down thinking I could get around this cliff. Nope, when I discovered the cliff below and I though the dog was going to go for it. Scared the hell out of me again. 

Had her out yesterday just hiking, she went after a rodent that ran right into the poison oak. I'd get rid of her but then my family would hate me. I bought her a climbing harness but haven't roped her up yet, just easier to leave her home.

Who makes that dog harness and model?  Been searching for one that is rated to hold a dog if needed. Been times I wanted to tie my dog in just in case. 

Alan Raderwrote:

Who makes that dog harness and model?  Been searching for one that is rated to hold a dog if needed. Been times I wanted to tie my dog in just in case. 

The Ruffwear doubleback harness is rated.