Bolt hanger removal on Bali Dome in the South Platte

Offering some perspective from some "new" climbers who live in the S Platte area and have enjoyed climbing these routes.  

Katie and I started climbing at the end of 2018.  We are self-taught, with no mentor to help us learn the basics.  As we were learning, we stuck to easier, well protected routes.  Thankfully, finding such routes was not difficult, and we have primarily gravitated to CCC, Staunton SP, and Shelf Rd for their plentiful, well protected moderates.  

When it comes to more "old school" S Platte areas close to home, we look them up on MP or in guidebooks and see scary runouts with bad landings below.  Unfortunately for us, this is a bit of a deal breaker.  In our minds, the reward (personal achievement / pride, overcoming fears, adrenaline etc.) does not justify the risk (blowing the 2nd clip and decking from 40+ feet) even if the chance of falling is very low.  We love this sport - I love it so much I want to keep doing it till I'm 80!  If that means avoiding "high risk" routes that have the potential to put me in the hospital (and away from climbing for months or years of recovery), cripple me or kill me, so be it.  There are plenty of other areas to enjoy that fit our criteria.  

When we saw Alan posted some routes at Bali Dome, we were stoked!  We know Alan from his routes in Staunton, and have met him on a couple of occasions.  Finally we had a chance to get out and try some friction slab put up by someone we know and trust.  We got out there as soon as we could, and it was the best intro to friction slab we could've asked for.  A new experience, unique from any other style of climbing we had tried.  We had a complete blast.  

Regarding the comments about creating extra / unnecessary traffic: we have been to Bali Dome on two occasions.  One time we were completely alone.  The other time there was one other couple.  The large parking area we used was empty when we arrived around 8am.  By the time we left around 1pm, the parking lot was jam packed - with tubers, not climbers!  These routes were definitely not creating a massive influx of climbers to the area.    

As far as ethics goes, it seems like Bali Dome was a boring, seldom-climbed area often overlooked and disregarded by more talented S Platte climbers.  To me, this makes it the perfect candidate for a "training grounds" of sorts.  If it wasn't being climbed much anyway, why not put it to use and establish some well protected routes for beginners?

We say, put the hangars / anchors back and let other new climbers enjoy the same experience we did!  It will either open a door for them, and give them the confidence to try some of the more old school run out routes in the area, or they will come out, have some fun, then probably never return.  Both of which sound like fine options to me.  

Thank you Alan, Sylvia and Peter for your work on establishing these fun S Platte routes! 

I began climbing in the Platte in 1971. I’ve done a lot of FAs throughout the region. The slab routes there have usually been runout only because drilling with a hand drill while leading was difficult and tedious and the pathetic quarter-inch bolts cost money — NOT because the FAers were deliberately trying to create a “runout” aesthetic. This style of first ascent is just a style, not an ethic.  Anyone claiming that bolting from the ground up is some noble ethic just has his inflated head competing for space in a very dark place. Those who survive the big runouts may be worthy of our amazement, but not respect or emulation.

Although I agree that placing unnecessary bolts is wrong, how many to place on a pitch is a matter of aesthetics and style. How to create the best experience for subsequent climbers by providing the best balance between risk and movement while utilizing available gear placements, should be the goal for FAers, whether ground up or on rappel. 

Tradiban wrote:

Can't people get stronger than 5.7 in the gym first and then come out and lead the original routes?

Just for perspective, the guide book shows the original routes as 200’ with 4 bolts, 230’ with 5 bolts, and 200’ with 0 bolts.   

Jim T wrote:

Just for perspective, the guide book shows the original routes as 200’ with 4 bolts, 230’ with 5 bolts, and 200’ with 0 bolts.   

Spicy meatball!

George Bracksieck wrote:

This style of first ascent is just a style, not an ethic.  

Exactly

George Bracksieck wrote:

... The slab routes there have usually been runout only because drilling with a hand drill while leading was difficult and tedious and the pathetic quarter-inch bolts cost money — NOT because the FAers were deliberately trying to create a “runout” aesthetic. This style of first ascent is just a style, not an ethic... 

This right here should be the end of this thread.

Most likely it won't be, but it should be because historically, the only sacred rule of ethics in climbing has been not to lie about what you climbed. Everything else is style, which is why people argue about it so much.

As has been pointed out, most if not all of the OG Splattebois are not the ones out chopping these new routes. It's piss-drinking Johnny come latelys that want to flex and show what balls they have by preserving "ethics" that you can't get them to realize is just "style." Want to chop routes in the Splatte? Free solo "Childhood's End" and then shove your rusty star drive in your dick hole. That is the only ethical way you can be a Self-Appointed Splatte Chopper Boi. 

SAPCB 4 lyfe.

Tim Stich wrote:

Free solo "Childhood's End" and then shove your rusty star drive in your dick hole.

Perhaps the single best sentence ever written on mountain project, or maybe even in climbing.

Routes should be bolted so that they are repeated. And by repeated I mean on a more frequent basis than say a route like the Green Project, where many of the bolts aren’t even placed well and the runouts on the second pitch are so absurd that even many of the most well rounded climbers in the region haven’t climbed the route yet. Routes like these and the 5.7s at Bali Dome don’t need to be over bolted nor do they need to be under bolted, but the decision is up to the first ascensionist. With that said, it should also be obvious that the history and local styles should be considered when developing new routes at an established crag, as the precedent has already been set by the climbers that came before (e.g. not over bolting or grid bolting). But it’s unreasonable to expect modern climbers to bolt in the same style as those 30-40 years ago. And this is my point: routes should be bolted so that they get repeated, because it’s more fun when others get to share in the joy of climbing a route you’ve established. Touting your superiority and imposing your strong opinions over others about style and ethics because you’ve established a handful of ground-up routes in the past with hooks and a power drill is not productive and not inclusive.

Dave Vuono wrote:

Perhaps the single best sentence ever written on mountain project, or maybe even in climbing.

Routes should be bolted so that they are repeated. And by repeated I mean on a more frequent basis than say a route like the Green Project, where many of the bolts aren’t even placed well and the runouts on the second pitch are so absurd that even many of the most well rounded climbers in the region haven’t climbed the route yet. Routes like these and the 5.7s at Bali Dome don’t need to be over bolted nor do they need to be under bolted, but the decision is up to the first ascensionist. With that said, it should also be obvious that the history and local styles should be considered when developing new routes at an established crag, as the precedent has already been set by the climbers that came before (e.g. not over bolting or grid bolting). But it’s unreasonable to expect modern climbers to bolt in the same style as those 30-40 years ago. And this is my point: routes should be bolted so that they get repeated, because it’s more fun when others get to share in the joy of climbing a route you’ve established. Touting your superiority and imposing your strong opinions over others about style and ethics because you’ve established a handful of ground-up routes in the past with hooks and a power drill is not productive and not inclusive.

Or the FA should demonstrate they could/would repeat their own route many years later...

But back then they weren't "developing" routes. They were just climbing. And they usually always were climbing new terrain..  add to it the throwing of the gauntlet for fellow climbers to feed egos. 

Maybe it's time for a South Platte Climbers Coalition or something cute like that. 

greg miller wrote:

There is already the Sheeprock Climbers Alliance, currently the membership rate is $80 a month which is going towards trail building, bolt adding to run out routes, auto belays on single pitch routes, installation of padding underneath popular offwidth boulder problems (there is a permit system based on votes and stars for them to be installed), signs pointing to crags (its come to our attention people still get lost finding popular areas like The Land that Time Forgot, Whiskey Rocks, Smoking Sections, and Helens Dome, despite the fact that they are extremely obvious). Our biggest expense will be having metal plaques made for each route to place at the start with name, grade, bolt count, pitch count. Eventually this area will be a "members only" access... for an advanced payment of $500 you can be grandfathered in! Please send all payments to S.C.A@imjking.com

I still can't believe how many people get lost trying to find Whiskey Rock...

T D wrote:

As for the fuckhead who did remove the hangers, I'm willing to bet they did that on rappel while nobody was watching.

I mean, if the person removed them on lead, that’s a different story

Vanilla Drilla From Manila wrote:

I mean, if the person removed them on lead, that’s a different story

Here's a similar (but much bolder) story from a friend back East:

https://www.facebook.com/100041825053755/posts/438486250888873/?app=fbl

nbrown wrote:

Here's a similar (but much bolder) story from a friend back East:

https://www.facebook.com/100041825053755/posts/438486250888873/?app=fbl

I love this story.

The old dogs preach an elevated ethical standard of the unknown, adventure, and purity. They confront nature on it’s own terms, bolting ground-up, by hand, on lead new routes that they only did due to their bold vision. They are a bunch of hypocrites. Once you put bolts in the wall and tell people you did a route you are the one who has just stolen that very wild adventure that you preach. Now there’s beta, now there are bolts, now it’s been done which brings the confidence of the possible to the next ascent party. Their own ethics don’t work. There isn’t enough rock in the world for every would-be FA to choose a blank face and put up a ground-up, hand-drilled on lead FA. They just got their first because they were born earlier. Being in the right place at the right time doesn’t make you a special rock god, it makes you lucky.

Many thanks to the hard-working, choss-cleaning, top-down drillas out there whose bolts I whip, terrified, onto just for the thrill and the chance at success. When my ego can no longer handle all the falling I think I will take up watching Mork and Mindy reruns and drinking margaritas at 4pm, so that I can still get to bed around 8. Then I’ll just watch people do silly climbing things in the movies and the Olympics And talk about how the good ol days used to be.

Lauren Fallsoffrocks wrote:

The old dogs preach an elevated ethical standard of the unknown, adventure, and purity. They confront nature on it’s own terms, bolting ground-up, by hand, on lead new routes that they only did due to their bold vision. They are a bunch of hypocrites. Once you put bolts in the wall and tell people you did a route you are the one who has just stolen that very wild adventure that you preach. Now there’s beta, now there are bolts, now it’s been done which brings the confidence of the possible to the next ascent party. Their own ethics don’t work. There isn’t enough rock in the world for every would-be FA to choose a blank face and put up a ground-up, hand-drilled on lead FA. They just got their first because they were born earlier. Being in the right place at the right time doesn’t make you a special rock god, it makes you lucky.

M

True!

Lauren Fallsoffrocks wrote:

The old dogs preach an elevated ethical standard of the unknown, adventure, and purity. They confront nature on it’s own terms, bolting ground-up, by hand, on lead new routes that they only did due to their bold vision. They are a bunch of hypocrites. Once you put bolts in the wall and tell people you did a route you are the one who has just stolen that very wild adventure that you preach. Now there’s beta, now there are bolts, now it’s been done which brings the confidence of the possible to the next ascent party. Their own ethics don’t work. There isn’t enough rock in the world for every would-be FA to choose a blank face and put up a ground-up, hand-drilled on lead FA. They just got their first because they were born earlier. Being in the right place at the right time doesn’t make you a special rock god, it makes you lucky.

Many thanks to the hard-working, choss-cleaning, top-down drillas out there whose bolts I whip, terrified, onto just for the thrill and the chance at success. When my ego can no longer handle all the falling I think I will take up watching Mork and Mindy reruns and drinking margaritas at 4pm, so that I can still get to bed around 8. Then I’ll just watch people do silly climbing things in the movies and the Olympics And talk about how the good ol days used to be.

I feel like I'm in Church... Preach, Ms. Hollingsworth. On behalf of this drilla and many others I know, it's our pleasure and you're welcome. 

Lauren Fallsoffrocks wrote:

The old dogs preach an elevated ethical standard of the unknown, adventure, and purity. They confront nature on it’s own terms, bolting ground-up, by hand, on lead new routes that they only did due to their bold vision. They are a bunch of hypocrites. Once you put bolts in the wall and tell people you did a route you are the one who has just stolen that very wild adventure that you preach. Now there’s beta, now there are bolts, now it’s been done which brings the confidence of the possible to the next ascent party. Their own ethics don’t work. There isn’t enough rock in the world for every would-be FA to choose a blank face and put up a ground-up, hand-drilled on lead FA. They just got their first because they were born earlier. Being in the right place at the right time doesn’t make you a special rock god, it makes you lucky.

Many thanks to the hard-working, choss-cleaning, top-down drillas out there whose bolts I whip, terrified, onto just for the thrill and the chance at success. When my ego can no longer handle all the falling I think I will take up watching Mork and Mindy reruns and drinking margaritas at 4pm, so that I can still get to bed around 8. Then I’ll just watch people do silly climbing things in the movies and the Olympics And talk about how the good ol days used to be.

<Insert mic drop gif>

And I might add the inability to post gifs here is beyond pathetic.

-10 for the original architecture