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Why are there so many academic/scientist climbers?
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I started climbing in the Organ Mountains of southern New Mexico in 1967. The east side of the range backs up against White Sands Missile Range. From the peaks you can look down on a White Sands facility nearby. On top of Sugarloaf peak (a very distinctive cone shaped peak, with an 1800 ft north face) in the cairn was the names of 4 German rocket scientists that had done the first ascent (in 1947, if I recall correctly). These were scientists that developed the V1 and V2s during World War 2, and were brought to the US after the war to form the basis of U.S. rocket development. That was a good jump start for climbing in the Organs... |
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This thread turned into some kind of weird flex contest |
Yoda Jedi Knightwrote: You see flex most just see life. |
Yoda Jedi Knightwrote: I just want you to know that I am waaaaaaaay more of an unemployed tiddy baby than you are. Do you even tiddy, bro? |
JonasMRwrote: Bra, I dropped out of more tiddy schools than you've applied to |
Peter Bealwrote: CERN has an entire climbing club, the Club d’Escalade du CERN. |
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I’m an academic, not in STEM but in law. Did my law degree in the US, PhD in Australia, and now I’m a lecturer (equivalent to assistant professor in the US, but with tenure) in Christchurch, New Zealand. I knew a lot more academic climbers when I was in law school and grad school than I do now. As others have mentioned, while bring a professor is a cushy job in a lot of ways, it’s also insanely competitive and locationally inflexible. Part of the reason I landed in NZ was because the job market for academic positions in the States is difficult to break into, and it’s even harder to find a job in a place with good climbing nearby. Here in NZ, I get paid less than 2/3rds what I’d make in America, but the working conditions are much more relaxed. I live within walking distance of 2 small crags and a 15-minute drive from many others. The local climbing is far from world class and I really miss all of the trips to Yosemite, Smith, JTree, the Creek, Blue Mountains, and Arapiles I took during law school and grad school, but Castle Hill is an hour away and there are plenty of other places further afield. In my view, if you want to have a successful academic career and climb at a reasonably high level (5.12-5.13), be prepared to burn the candle at both ends, specialise (in research and in climbing), and settle for a less prestigious university to live close to some rocks. On top of work, my partner and I have a young baby, so proximity to local options are highly valued. I still get out 2-3 times a week, but they are quick hits! Kia ora and good luck to all aspiring ivory tower punters! |
Brandon Whitewrote: Switzerland is the place to be! A professor I was interested in having as an advisor on a CompSci PhD at EPFL in Switzerland turned out to be a 5.14+ climbing World Cup winner. I chickened out of the international lifestyle change and wound up in a program in the states but always wonder what could’ve been with 4-5 years of flexible self-dictated work based in the alps on a cushy (for a grad student) Swiss salary. Also at one point I worked in a research group with a professor who I later learned had climbed 5.13 trad and 5.14 sport. He never brought up climbing in discussing his personal life. A good reminder that no matter what you’re optimizing for in life, someone’s doing it better without spraying about it. |
MattHwrote: Is it? I romanticized about Switzerland until I visited there: I'm sure it's great for many, but I can't imagine myself living there. And about that Swiss income, don't forget how expensive everything is (something feel wrong when Swiss tend to drive to neighboring countries to load up on meats & cheese). But that last point, that's pretty much true for almost all of us. |
rebootwrote: I visited a few times and the COL isn’t much higher than NYC (where I ended up) and their stipends were 2x as high. All the grad students I met were taking at least weekly ski trips. Plus you can take public transit to the crag. |
MattHwrote: Let's be honest here, people move to NYC for better COL, says no one ever. There are a number of college towns in the US w/ much lower COL and stipend comparable to Columbia/NYU. Besides, if you are doing a CompSci PhD, you can make a killing interning for the American tech companies. Also, colleagues I met in Zurich mostly talked about skiing, not (at all outdoor) climbing. But living in Boulder, I'm pretty spoiled. |
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Reboot- shits all over Switzerland, then shits all over Nyc THEN tells us all how he lives in Boulder CO... Predictable much? |
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I remember in like 2009 I bought an enchilada in Switzerland just to say I did (and hey, here we are!) and because it's was $38. It was not good. |
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Switzerland is expensive, but they're also set up to take money from foreigners every step of the way. Actually living in switzerland things are still expensive, but I think you get a skewed impression as a tourist. For instance, eating out is expensive, but they pay their staff a decent living wage. Bad for tourists who can't cook, great for the Swiss who have to work to make and serve your food, little to no impact on swiss who live at home and can cook for themselves. They have a great rail system but it seems expensive to tourists. However, if you spend a long period of time in switzerland (because, say, you live there), you can get rail passes that dramatically reduce costs or make it competitive with driving, while also reducing other transportation costs like cable cars in the mountains. You have to remember, this is the country that made its wealth by sending mercenaries to fight in their neighbor's wars, while strategically avoiding getting directly involved in any (costly and destructive) wars themselves, and more recently served as a tax haven, basically taking a cut out of money that would normally be owed to their neighbor's treasuries. So don't be surprised when you find that they've got a very good business model when it comes to taking your money, but don't assume that they treat their own residents the same way. As for the swiss going to a neighboring country for cheese, French cheese is just better. And I don't mean any of the above as a knock against Switzerland (except maybe the cheese comment). Rather I'm trying to explain why living in switzerland is probably better than your impressions of it as a tourist. |
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NYC is expensive too, but it has so much to offer (maybe not as much for a climber). Eating out can be very expensive too but there's actually good food from all over the world. Swiss work pretty long hours yet the city of Zurich was dead after 8PM. Though credit to Matt, that's probably a perfect place to be a graduate student: there's little to distract you from actually being productive day-to-day, and your higher stipend (in absolute terms) can go a lot further in the neighboring countries when you do take climbing trips. |
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I've only ever met degenerate pirates. |
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As interesting as the Swiss/NYC debate is… I’m a scientist and know several other scientist climbers as well as many non-scientist climbers. As much as I’d like to think there’s a correlation, I don’t think there is. Now climbers and stoners on the other hand… |
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I know way more scientists that play Ultimate, even in Switzerland. |
