Money in surfing vs climbing

JonasMR wrote:

We need casual wear harnesses, helmets, and climbing shoes. Start selling crashpads as portable futons. 

This is your billion dollar idea, Jonas. Run with it. 

Glowering wrote:

If standing up on a soft top isn’t surfing then top roping isn’t climbing. 

Unless you're Jamie of course! youtu.be/2D5ugxEVBXA?t=178

I just went to my local Campbell Sports Basement its a big store and they said that they permanently removed the climbing section months ago.  They said go to Sunnyvale. haha.  I thought it was relevant.  

It would be interesting to know the numbers for a number of sports. 

How many people do it. 

How many people watch it on TV or live. 

How much money is spent on apparel. How much is spent on gear. 

What athletes are paid. What they are paid for endorsements. 

Skiing/snowboarding would be related to climbing and surfing as an outdoor individual sport. I do all of these and the clothes for them pretty much covers me for all four seasons. 

Golf makes a lot of money because a lot of people do it, who have money. It’s boring as shit to watch. But there’s a competitive and easy to understand appeal to watching. Like nascar.  It’s boring to watch someone go around in an oval 100 times. But the drama of who has the lead and can some one catch them makes engaging viewing. 

A huge thing now is tactical gear (eg 5.11 tactical). A bunch on wannabe army men dressing up to storm the capital I guess. I have guns but find that lifestyle pretty pathetic. I’m not into hunting and fishing but I see the appeal, a lot of people are into it as their outdoor lifestyle.

Basketball might be the biggest money maker. Sneakers and clothing. Everyone can play basketball.  The NBA is a huge spectator sport.

Football as a contract sport limits how many people play it. But of course it’s viewership is huge. They sell a lot of jerseys and branded stuff.

The virgin climber vs. The Chad surfer. That’s all you need to know, folks.

Surfing is also bigger because more rich people participate and like to watch. Ever been to Malibu? Tahiti? Venice Beach? Lets just say that the average net worth of a surfer at select beaches in LA County, The Gold Coast of Australia or the North Shore of Oahu is going to be in the 6/7/8 figure range. Theres select areas in California that people pay a SIGNIFICANT  premium to get access to a private beach, which happens to have a couple private, world class, surf breaks. Recently, a 1.5 acre dirt lot just sold for more than $10M to, you guessed it, a surfer looking for a beach key.

Surfing is definitely the action sports equivalent to golf. Rich people, raised in affluent beach communities all across the world, were raised by their wealthy parents who saw the surfers from their ocean view bedroom windows and wanted their kids to be cool like the surfers. Now, theres a whole bunch of second/third generation surfers taking their private jets to Costa Rica when they saw a swell pop up on the charts, chartering 100ft yachts to sail around Indonesia looking for waves, and pulling up in their $150k Range Rovers to the nearest surf spot before work. The same thing can definitely not be said about climbing.

Also, as far as popularity goes, Gabriel Medina (Brazilian surfing phenom) has 8.4M instagram followers and took home more than $10M this year from sponsors. Thats probably more than every TNF/Patagonia climber instagram following and yearly salary combined. And how many climbers have supermodel girlfriends? 

Why do any of you care whether surfing is more popular and generates more money? Let them all surf. Climbing sucks anyway, stay away.

I've been surfing FAR longer than i have climbing, So, I'd hope to have a somewhat valid opinion on the matter: The reason why surfing has such a huge "economy" and is so much larger over climbing is simple. It's the natural high you get from it. You suffer a lot more when climbing. You get a HUGE natural high from the adrenaline rush and sensations from surfing. It just isn't the same as being totally psyched after sending your 5.10 or whatever grade project. Add to it, the clothing, the brands, the "surfer lifestyle" blah blah blah......In the simplest ways, surfing has a far superior, immediate natural high that isn't commonly found in the pursuit climbing. Both are equally beautiful and amazing pursuits, which i both dearly love. But, if you haven't done both, you're honestly comparing pineapples to mosquito bites.

WoodyW wrote:

I've been surfing FAR longer than i have climbing, So, I'd hope to have a somewhat valid opinion on the matter: The reason why surfing has such a huge "economy" and is so much larger over climbing is simple. It's the natural high you get from it. You suffer a lot more when climbing. You get a HUGE natural high from the adrenaline rush and sensations from surfing. It just isn't the same as being totally psyched after sending your 5.10 or whatever grade project. Add to it, the clothing, the brands, the "surfer lifestyle" blah blah blah......In the simplest ways, surfing has a far superior, immediate natural high that isn't commonly found in the pursuit climbing. Both are equally beautiful and amazing pursuits, which i both dearly love. But, if you haven't done both, you're honestly comparing pineapples to mosquito bites.

That’s probably more a result of you having more experience with surfing. Based on how you describe it I’d guess you have more experience sport climbing than trad.

I have more experience climbing (all types) but have done a good amount of surfing. I only suffer on a wall or off width. I get way more adrenaline rushes climbing trad than surfing. 

Bodhi (dejectedly): They only live to get radical. They don't understand the sea, so they'll never get the spiritual side of it.

done both at a high level for years. Surfing is more accessible. Give someone a wave storm and 300 days of the year they can ride 1 foot whitewash in California. Give someone a rope and set of draws and they won’t know anything about getting to the chains. Bouldering is slightly different until you realize even the V0s are hard, and those tennis shoes sure aren’t helping. Now, surfing at a high level takes years, arguably more than climbing 5.hard, because it’s harder to get repeatable practice in the ocean.

Surfing has more money because it sells more clothes etc. Surfing has captured the “active lifestyle” niche earlier and better than climbing has. Probably because the “active lifestyle” climbing niche are already taken by yog brands.

Pro surfers still make little. Pro climbers also make little. Gabriel Medina has a gazillion Instagram followers because he’s friends with Neymar and great at marketing himself, not because there’s more money in surfing. Most pro surfers took a huge paycut this year, many pros fund their entire travel/comp/etc budget out of pocket. You can cherry pick successes from both sides (Kelly slater, jimmy chin) but there’s far more mid 40s ex-pros that now sand surfboards/sell trad gear for a living cause the industry didn’t support em.

Both can give you a “natural high”. 40 feet of hooking on el cap seems like something I never want to experience, same as packing a 40 footer at jaws. Look at honnold after he soloed el cap, high as shit. Look at Pete Mel after his wave at mavericks.

Surfings just been marketable for like 50 more years. Climbings going through the equivalent of surfings “gidget” boom like 50 years ago. Now the surf industry’s crashing and most waves in so cal are overcrowded. Whoop. Meanwhile, there’s a new gym in every small town with a local rock. Whoop.

Some European climbers have done pretty well.  

Messner certainly made a lot of money in his day.  (Enough to buy his own castle.)  

Meanwhile Mahomes signs a 1/2 BILLION $ contract...

Glowering wrote:

That’s probably more a result of you having more experience with surfing. Based on how you describe it I’d guess you have more experience sport climbing than trad.

I have more experience climbing (all types) but have done a good amount of surfing. I only suffer on a wall or off width. I get way more adrenaline rushes climbing trad than surfing. 

Well...Clearly, you're just the local kook who's not charging hard enough when the swells hit! ;) 

J/k! 

I'm 50/50 sport/trad. I can lead at the same level for both. While trad definitely keeps my attention much sharper, i've yet to experience that same euphoric/stoked feeling I have after a wave. It's just "different." I can't explain it. The wonderful thing about our pursuit of gravity is that everyone experiences it differently. At the end of the day, I'm always a far better, happier person catching the last wave in or finishing the last rappel or on the hike down from the wall than I was when I parked my car and got ready to go. Cheers! 

WoodyW wrote:

Well...Clearly, you're just the local kook who's not charging hard enough when the swells hit! ;) 

J/k! 

I'm 50/50 sport/trad. I can lead at the same level for both. While trad definitely keeps my attention much sharper, i've yet to experience that same euphoric/stoked feeling I have after a wave. It's just "different." I can't explain it. The wonderful thing about our pursuit of gravity is that everyone experiences it differently. At the end of the day, I'm always a far better, happier person catching the last wave in or finishing the last rappel or on the hike down from the wall than I was when I parked my car and got ready to go. Cheers! 

Totally agree that people experience it differently.

I’ve been way more scared in the act of run out climbing than surfing. Hold downs are probably the scariest thing to me. Falls are scary but I’m more in the zone focused on falling correctly.

As was posted on the first page of the thread. Surfing is more fun. It’s dynamic. The feeling on flying over the wave and connecting with the ocean is amazing. But climbing is more of an experience. Having tough goals, the thrill of being so high, in amazing places, with a friend is awesome.

I guess the related question is if you could be a pro at one of them which would you choose?

I surf better than I climb but I find more flow state in multipitch trad climbing. On the other hand, getting minute-long pointbreak waves is also pretty magical, but also fairly elusive most of the time. 

WoodyW wrote:

I'm 50/50 sport/trad. I can lead at the same level for both. While trad definitely keeps my attention much sharper, i've yet to experience that same euphoric/stoked feeling I have after a wave. It's just "different." I can't explain it. 

Agreed. 

The feeling of kicking out after an epic wave - your body "tingles". 

Sending a route, whether hard, or R, etc - is relief and accomplishment. Easier to describe. Fun, yes. Also, easy to share the feeling with partners. Not the same, though. 

Matt N wrote:

Agreed. 

The feeling of kicking out after an epic wave - your body "tingles". 

Sending a route, whether hard, or R, etc - is relief and accomplishment. Easier to describe. Fun, yes. Also, easy to share the feeling with partners. Not the same, though. 

Yeah, it certainly does! Even if it's just a shoulder high wave and you do a couple snaps or longboard turns and that's it. Andy Irons, may his tormented soul forever rest in peace, explains it the best by describing surfing as "It's like being kissed by God." I've had many surf sessions that were far greater and more memorable than an easy Tinder hook-up. 

Surfing and climbing have something in the common discipline. Try to write down what you like the most and why. And then you may choose what fit you perfectly. I'm into surfing because I really like it, and I like it since childhood. Climbing is just a hobby that helps me to improve my performance in surfing. Surfing is fun; climbing is fun also.
Moreover, surfing is a meditation for me because I feel like I own the entire ocean. I'm on top of it, on top of the wave, and feel grateful. So, you decide, man. Just do not forget to choose a suitable surfboard, and begin surfing on small waves. Look for more information and guides on outdoorlifecafe.com/ for beginners their articles are perfect.

It might be in part too because of a perception that climbing is dangerous in comparison to surfing (even though I'm willing to bet that statistically it's the opposite).  Also probably has to do with most people having a fear of heights.  Also it's probably just because the clothes are trendy.  I remember when I skateboarded at first we were seen as outcasts and losers.  My senior year of high school though skate clothes became super trendy.  I'm sure there was explosive growth in the market then and many pros started making a lot more because of broader advertising reach.  I'm honestly not sure I want to see that in climbing though (and I'm not sure we will because of the aforementioned fear of heights).  Crags are often very crowded in certain areas as it is.  Might also create problems with access as if we don't have enough already.  I suppose if it's just isolated mostly to gym climbing though (which we might see with climbing plastic in the Olympics now) I can live with that.  More gyms can be built whereas that's not the case with rock.