Wild Iris and Tensleep are Alpine Climbing Areas

First, I will start with the simple fact that boulders in RMNP are listed as alpine, so sport climbs can also be Alpine.
Second, they are at pretty high altitudes and some of the crags seem to approach tree line and bad weather can happen.
Third, they are really single season climbing areas.
Forth, they can have longer approaches particularly city of gold.
Fifth, you will probably spend more time camping in Wild Iris than on the average multi pitch alpine objective.
Sixth, you get a nasty sunburn.

I guess when your talking about your alpine objectives include Wild Iris and Tensleep.

That's not alpine climbing

tldr = nothing in the lower 48 is alpine climbing

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

First, I will start with the simple fact that boulders in RMNP are listed as alpine, so sport climbs can also be Alpine.
Second, they are at pretty high altitudes and some of the crags seem to approach tree line and bad weather can happen.
Third, they are really single season climbing areas.
Forth, they can have longer approaches particularly city of gold.
Fifth, you will probably spend more time camping in Wild Iris than on the average multi pitch alpine objective.
Sixth, you get a nasty sunburn.

I guess when your talking about your alpine objectives include Wild Iris and Tensleep.

Like traditroll, you really need to get off the internet and find another hobby.

I know climbing at Wild Iris always left me wind chapped, sunburned, spent, and content.

Marc801 Cwrote:

Like traditroll, you really need to get off the internet and find another hobby.

MP would be less entertaining without them. Call me crazy, but when I see a post by Tradi or Trevor I’m gonna read it. 100% chance of funny discussion below 

When someone on MP writes "When I'm climbing in the alpine . . ." - and people post this all the time - you know they have never done any alpine climbing.

ZT Gwrote:

MP would be less entertaining without them. Call me crazy, but when I see a post by Tradi or Trevor I’m gonna read it. 100% chance of funny discussion below 

If MP was a Broadway show, it would have closed down 5 years ago. If it was a television program it never would have made it past the pilot stage.

You're starting to cross from a sincere desire to talk about strange ideas to just straight up trolling. I have two things to say in response to your post: 

1) No.

2) Booooooooooooooooo 

Kyle Elliottwrote:

That's not alpine climbing

tldr = nothing in the lower 48 is alpine climbing

Exactly most alpine climbing doesn’t align with the conventional meaning.

Marc801 C wrote:

Like traditroll, you really need to get off the internet and find another hobby.

I haven’t even started a thread this week but I’m sitting in an airport so what would you recommend I do?

LL2wrote:

I know climbing at Wild Iris always left me wind chapped, sunburned, spent, and content.

Personally I also craved milk do to the alpine cows.

WF WF51wrote:

When someone on MP writes "When I'm climbing in the alpine . . ." - and people post this all the time - you know they have never done any alpine climbing.

I didn’t even say that but I am definitely not an alpine climber in any sense give me an air bnb and a hot tub not some tent bs.

To the Broadway comment, Lin Manuael Miranda said in my podcast if you can just get your play too Broadway that’s a huge success. I like to think my posts are essentially “CATS” of mp.

Ricky Harlinewrote:

You're starting to cross from a sincere desire to talk about strange ideas to just straight up trolling. I have two things to say in response to your post: 

1) No.

2) Booooooooooooooooo 

Well I missed my final point but the term alpine should be high jacked to be the environmental definition. Alpine should be the designation for fragile environment and not some term no one agrees about. When you say you went alpine climbing to a non climber they don’t know what that means. When you say it to a normal climber they also don’t really know what that means. Blake the alpinist wrote a whole blog defining alpine climbing which kinda demonstrates it’s not the best descriptor.

Alpine climbing should be renamed complex climbing as that is far more descriptive and intuitive.

Also the term alpine is used for gate keeping 99% of the time so if that’s not a troll…

Zach Taylor wrote:

MP would be less entertaining without them. Call me crazy, but when I see a post by Tradi or Trevor I’m gonna read it. 100% chance of funny discussion below 

Thanks I actually have getting more positive dms than negative!

Alpine rock climbing communicates a certain type of climbing. Alpine bouldering is not trying to communicate any of those very serious factors, it's just saying hey, this is bouldering at high altitude. If you want to try and create a new category of "alpine sport climbing" then that's fine, but it has nothing to do with what people mean when they say "alpine climbing." 

Sometimes a term gets used, and perhaps it would be useful to use that term in another way. For example, I do rope soloing. It's free climbing and it's soloing, so it could meaningfully be described as free soloing. However, I obviously cannot use that phrase because it is taken by another type of climbing, and me insisting on calling my rope soloing free soloing would only lead to confusion. This leads to rope soloists calling themselves lead rope solo free climbers, which is a mouthful to say the least. I would like to be able to simply call myself a free soloist, but I'm not going to change anyone's minds about what the phrase free soloing means, so I am stuck being a lead rope solo free climber, which is fine. 

Well, same as this-- alpine climbing does not refer just to the altitude of the activity, but rather is also describing the type of activity. Climbing below your ability is important, rescue is incredibly difficult, long runouts are common, speed is safety, etc.. Alpine bouldering may be a more serious endeavor than normal bouldering, but the differences aren't nearly as large. 

So what are you trying to communicate with your alpine sport climbing? I've spent a lot of time sport climbing in the alpine this year-- and you know what? It just feels like sport climbing. Except there aren't any crowds, and it's about 20 degrees colder than the foothills where I live (which is a real welcome relief this time of year). I don't think there's any difference important enough to try and make this a category. It's sport climbing. In the alpine. Yeah, it's kinda neat, but also the differences are like really really small. 

I think you've misunderstood what the phrase is intended to mean and therefore not understood why it's valuable to separate it from other activities in the alpine.

Ricky Harlinewrote:

So what are you trying to communicate with your alpine sport climbing? I've spent a lot of time sport climbing in the alpine this year-- and you know what? It just feels like sport climbing. Except there aren't any crowds, and it's about 20 degrees colder than the foothills where I live (which is a real welcome relief this time of year). I don't think there's any difference important enough to try and make this a category. It's sport climbing. In the alpine. Yeah, it's kinda neat, but also the differences are like really really small. 

I think you've misunderstood what the phrase is intended to mean and therefore not understood why it's valuable to separate it from other activities in the alpine.

 

Agreed just like the Full Exum in GTNP is just a traditional multi pitch in the alpine.

alpine , roughly “to the pine”, pertaining to tree line. So climbing above treeline is alpine. This is a pretty lazy troll/pot-stir thread

It's only alpine if you complain the whole day

Ricky Harlinewrote:

Alpine rock climbing communicates a certain type of climbing. Alpine bouldering is not trying to communicate any of those very serious factors, it's just saying hey, this is bouldering at high altitude. If you want to try and create a new category of "alpine sport climbing" then that's fine, but it has nothing to do with what people mean when they say "alpine climbing." 

Sometimes a term gets used, and perhaps it would be useful to use that term in another way. For example, I do rope soloing. It's free climbing and it's soloing, so it could meaningfully be described as free soloing. However, I obviously cannot use that phrase because it is taken by another type of climbing, and me insisting on calling my rope soloing free soloing would only lead to confusion. This leads to rope soloists calling themselves lead rope solo free climbers, which is a mouthful to say the least. I would like to be able to simply call myself a free soloist, but I'm not going to change anyone's minds about what the phrase free soloing means, so I am stuck being a lead rope solo free climber, which is fine. 

But I feel like no one agrees what the term alpine means, in this thread there is the spectrum of anything above trees to no climbs in the 48 (guess I will go to Hawaii or Puerto Rico for my alpine climbing). Since there isn’t really a consensus then I don’t know why defining it as an envormental term wouldn’t make sense. I’m mostly of the mind to describe climbs by their grade. Saying, “I did a class v” makes more sense then just saying “alpine.”

Well, same as this-- alpine climbing does not refer just to the altitude of the activity, but rather is also describing the type of activity. Climbing below your ability is important, rescue is incredibly difficult, long runouts are common, speed is safety, etc.. Alpine bouldering may be a more serious endeavor than normal bouldering, but the differences aren't nearly as large. 

That’s fine but I guess I don’t know why that wouldn’t apply to sport climbing.

So what are you trying to communicate with your alpine sport climbing? I've spent a lot of time sport climbing in the alpine this year-- and you know what? It just feels like sport climbing. Except there aren't any crowds, and it's about 20 degrees colder than the foothills where I live (which is a real welcome relief this time of year). I don't think there's any difference important enough to try and make this a category. It's sport climbing. In the alpine. Yeah, it's kinda neat, but also the differences are like really really small. 

Boulders think it’s a big enough difference. The benefit would be people being more delicate to the environment maybe? Know that snow is a possibility or that rescue could be a nightmare. I think sport crags in Alaska or forgotten crags in Wyoming/Montana would meet this standard like if you get hurt on this death choss you might not get out.

I think you've misunderstood what the phrase is intended to mean and therefore not understood why it's valuable to separate it from other activities in the alpine.

It seems most people dont agree on what the term means. I honestly don’t know if labeling a climb on mountain project as alpine really does anything for people.

Trevor Taylorwrote:

But I feel like no one agrees what the term alpine means, in this thread there is the spectrum of anything above trees to no climbs in the 48 (guess I will go to Hawaii or Puerto Rico for my alpine climbing). Since there isn’t really a consensus then I don’t know why defining it as an envormental term wouldn’t make sense. I’m mostly of the mind to describe climbs by their grade. Saying, “I did a class v” makes more sense then just saying “alpine.”

That’s fine but I guess I don’t know why that wouldn’t apply to sport climbing.

Boulders think it’s a big enough difference. The benefit would be people being more delicate to the environment maybe? Know that snow is a possibility or that rescue could be a nightmare. I think sport crags in Alaska or forgotten crags in Wyoming/Montana would meet this standard like if you get hurt on this death choss you might not get out.

It seems most people dont agree on what the term means. I honestly don’t know if labeling a climb on mountain project as alpine really does anything for people.

I don't see this confusion at all. I have only ever heard the phrase alpine climbing mean not just climbs in the alpine, but serious ones with much higher consequences than normal trad climbing. There's a 5.7 in Pinnacles called Feather Canyon that is described as having "real alpine feel." Go climb it and see how scared you get on some of those 5.7 pitches, hell, on some of those 5.4 pitches! That's closer to alpine climbing than sport climbing above the tree line. 

Maybe you're interacting with people who are confused on the subject and that's just not a thing here in the Sierra, but I have never once encountered anyone other than yourself that thought of alpine climbing meaning anything other than climbs at high altitude that are big objectives and that all have an implied "DFU (don't fuck up)" after the grade.  

Feather Canyon is 5.7 DFU. The 5.8 I led up highway 4 last week near Bear Valley is just 5.8. Not alpine climbing. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

I would say Kyle’s response up thread that there is no such thing as an alpine climb in the lower 48 would at least disagree with you. Then there is this thread:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118075353/what-the-hell-is-alpine-climbing

Trevor Taylorwrote:

I would say Kyle’s response up thread that there is no such thing as an alpine climb in the lower 48 would at least disagree with you. Then there is this thread:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118075353/what-the-hell-is-alpine-climbing

You have forgotten an important fact: mountain project is 90% a collection of climbing's biggest idiots. Why do you think I'm here? =P

That thread is a joke thread. There are maybe 20 people total you should ever listen to on this site and probably about six of them post regularly. I don't think any of them showed up.  (note: unless you want advice on being a perennial gumby that has been projecting 10a for the last four years, sure as shit don't listen to me) 

This isn't just like pointing to a standup set and using it for evidence to make a point, it's like pointing to the special ed class' attempt at standup and using that as evidence. 

With regards to the comment that there are no alpine climbs in the lower 48 they completely agree on the criteria-- severity of climb, difficulty of rescue, etc., but simply disagree on what climbs meet that criteria. That's quite a different sort of disagreement than the assertion that routes that have bolts every fourteen feet or whatever to the top are alpine climbs because they're above the tree line. 

Name isn't the greatest-- I get it. I still am not seeing all this disagreement. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

.There are maybe 20 people total you should ever listen to on this site and probably about six of them post regularly. I don't think any of them showed up.  (note: unless you want advice on being a perennial gumby that has been projecting 10a for the last four years, sure as shit don't listen to me) . 

Do they alpine climb?

I believe RIcky above said it best -- there are certain aspects that make a climb "alpine" versus simply in an alpine area (and I live in Europe, so don't even get started on the idea that Alpine climbing can only refer to those climbs in the Alps.)  I believe Blake Herrington was making the argument more for folks looking at getting good at climbing the "alpine" routes in the North Cascades and desperately following the Training for the New Alpinism but ignoring that their main hold up is their lack of actual climbing ability--not their approach skills, easily manageable snow/ice difficulties, etc... Not to speak for him, but I believe he would be nuanced when discussing something such as Willis Wall...also he is such a strong "backcountry" climber that the approaches to Stuart or similar feel like basic hiking to him...His point, as I interpret, is that one should be more focused on climbing vis-a-vis all the other factors in true alpine climbing...and maybe a little jab at all the folks who have done the Tooth and call themselves alpine climbers.

Wild Iris, and the many other crags in the US that are in an Alpine environment, are certainly not alpine climbing. The points are easy to refute: 1) One should rarely listen to MP, especially those listing a bouldering area as "alpine;" 2) Bad weather can happen everywhere; alpine climbing typically will mean bad weather becomes a significant event with very specific decisions that need to be made; 3) Alpine climbing is not single season--seasons just delineate which type of climbers you may see there and increase/decrease of difficulty/hazard; 4) Long approaches do not make something alpine; you can take the gondola to Kleine Scheidegg and from there a casual stroll to the base of the Eiger Nordwand or you can walk 2 hours to Upper Tier in Vegas--one is alpine, one is not; 5) The number of nights camping does not make a climb alpine--few would call the Nose alpine, but you (well, normal humans) camp on wall; single pushes can be alpine without camping...the dirtbag camping near the Happies is not "alpine climbing" because she is camping; 5) a good alpinist prepares for the increased sun exposure and avoids sunburn as much as possible.

Since I know you're in Seattle-area, don't take many of the climbers you meet there who call themselves alpinists seriously...most are just hoping to get their MSR sponsorship from following trade routes on well-trodden peaks and selling it as cutting edge.  For myself, I consider something alpine if you feel that "shit your pants" fear below the objective, and know that you'll still be shitting your pants till you are back in your tent/car.  I'd say I've only felt that on one alpine climb so I would say I've only climbed one alpine climb....but as always, YMMV.

Silly Americans, it's only alpine if it's in the Alps

TravisJBurkewrote:

Since I know you're in Seattle-area, don't take many of the climbers you meet there who call themselves alpinists seriously...most are just hoping to get their MSR sponsorship from following trade routes on well-trodden peaks and selling it as cutting edge.  For myself, I consider something alpine if you feel that "shit your pants" fear below the objective, and know that you'll still be shitting your pants till you are back in your tent/car.  I'd say I've only felt that on one alpine climb so I would say I've only climbed one alpine climb....but as always, YMMV.

I have a crohns so I have that feeling all day on lowball boulders, I guess I’m an alpinist!