Possible accidental retrobolt

Hey everyone,

I’m developing a new crag and think I might have accidentally retrobolted an old TR route. The guidebook we have for this area came out in 93 and is hand drawn. It’s pretty hard to understand. The FA is no longer in the area and no one has been to this crag in years. Im building a trail up there with the intent of bolting more sport routes. Still, I feel bad and am seeking advice in this case. I think chopping all the bolts is just going to leave a mess, is it ok to just leave them?  The route was definitely not a trad route as there is no protection. Thanks!

A lot of trad routes have 0 protection, even top anchors.  There are entire crags like that depending on the local ethics.  Make sure you ask everyone you can in the community and people who made the guidebook if possible about said area. 

what condition are the existing bolts? 

Sam Cook wrote:

A lot of trad routes have 0 protection, even top anchors.  There are entire crags like that depending on the local ethics.  Make sure you ask everyone you can in the community and people who made the guidebook if possible about said area. 

what condition are the existing bolts? 

There weren’t any anchors on the route I put in. I used a tree that wasn’t in the optimal spot. The bolts up there are all rusted to hell.  I have a Hurley junior so I can replace those. Unfortunately the author to the guide passed away. The new guidebook author has confirmed that no one has been up there. He didn’t even put this rock in his book and it’s not on mp.

Alex Morano wrote:

Hey everyone,

I’m developing a new crag and think I might have accidentally retrobolted an old TR route. The guidebook we have for this area came out in 93 and is hand drawn. It’s pretty hard to understand. The FA is no longer in the area and no one has been to this crag in years. Im building a trail up there with the intent of bolting more sport routes. Still, I feel bad and am seeking advice in this case. I think chopping all the bolts is just going to leave a mess, is it ok to just leave them?  The route was definitely not a trad route as there is no protection. Thanks!

Heh, "no pro" is sometimes in the eye of the beholder and it sounds like this crag has already been developed? You need to check in with some of the original developers, there could be good reasons they didn't bolt it.

Tradiban wrote:

Heh, "no pro" is sometimes in the eye of the beholder and it sounds like this crag has already been developed? You need to check in with some of the original developers, there could be good reasons they didn't bolt it.

The guidebook does say it’s just a TR. I’m thinking my route is just slightly right on the same face. They call the route an 11a and mine is close to a 13 I think.  Granted they did sandbag a lot of climbs.  Unfortunate situation but I think it’ll be ok in the long run

Alex Morano wrote:

The guidebook does say it’s just a TR. I’m thinking my route is just slightly right on the same face. They call the route an 11a and mine is close to a 13 I think.  Granted they did sandbag a lot of climbs.  Unfortunate situation but I think it’ll be ok in the long run

Sounds like you contrived an 11a   . 

Top roping is just scouting out the line. It's not a FA until you lead or solo it. Congrats on the send!

Notapplicable wrote:

Top roping is just scouting out the line. It's not a FA until you lead or solo it. Congrats on the send!

Toprope climbs are sometimes significant challenges.  They also tend to be lower impact than, say, bolting the route for a lead.  Whether they are called ascents, climbs, etc. is somewhat of a word game.  In the old bolting debates people would sometimes point out that sport routes bolted on rappel are not really ascents either, since the work to create the pro started at the top of the cliff....

There's a cool old video of Todd Skinner climbing at Hueco when bolting was banned.  He has a static rope with knotted loops spaced every 10' or so, and he leads up and clips those loops for the lead.  Very low impact, and similar to leading a bolted route.  But you have to start at the top to set up the pro, similar to bolting on rap.  And I suppose sometimes these days people rap a route to hang the draws for the lead.  Similar story.

This said, bolting a toprope route is not equivalent to adding bolts to an existing lead.  It does not really conflict with the toprope climb, which can still be done that way.  So you can still evaluate your climb in the usual way - is the quality of the climbing worth the impact of the bolts, trail, etc.

I think in the interests of safety you should bolt the climb so it can be led and chop the TR anchors, maybe a top out only finish. I can't remember where I saw it, but I just recently read that lead climbing is safer than top roping, so you would be doing a service for the community in equipping the climb for lead. 

Please consider not reporting your new route work here, or anywhere else. If you simply must report it for the fame and glory, or just your civic duty, please consider reporting it to the new guidebook author you mentioned, only.

The disused crag will thank you and so will all the locals. Don't invite strangers into your house!

I wouldn't worry too much about that lost TR. One of the coolest things about not reporting is that a crag can indeed become forgotten once more. This in turn has spun around to offer you some new ground. By not reporting it you reserve the crag's right to be forgotten again and some future climbers the chance to rediscover. Its not a universal thing imo, nor would it apply to all or perhaps even most situations. 

Keep it secret, keep it safe, locals only bra.

If you do a good job and take your time you will have done the community a good service. Keep the spirit of the try hard alive, make the climbers make moves other than bolting gym style clip ups, within the bounds of safety.

I mean unless the OGs are total assholes or ego maniacs…. Yeah nevermind you are probably gonna piss someone off! 

Please don't sport-bolt routes that can easily be top-roped.   It is a senseless.   If you want to bolt, put in some nice TR anchors and leave it.  Mother nature is not a gym.