Lead Climbing is Often Safer than Top Rope

Maybe people feel differently than me but advice often given to new climbers is to top rope stuff. I really feel like this is can be often bad advice and dangerous advice. First, telling new climbers to setup a top rope is bad advice. It is often more technical than just lead climbing stuff (especially sport climbs). The number of jank anchors I have seen in Pawtuckaway state park and the devils lake anchor thread are significantly concerning. I am not talking about poorly equalized I am talking about quick draw daisy chain. Secondly, many climbs are bad top ropes. There are many slabs in index that if you set up a top rope and didn't place any redirects you would swing significantly off route if you fell. In Rumney I saw multiple people soft deck because they would climb a steep overhang then fall colliding with the very large talous as they swung. Third there is actually more redundancy leading. If you are placing gear or clipping draws there is actually more protection in the wall (generally climbs get rated better that are safer). There are often top ropes where you can't even see the anchor from below. 

Edit: To add. I get called a gumby/dumb/soft/weak often enough and I rarely top rope. To Franks point I haven't talked to my mom in a week!

In short I think it is often safer to lead climb than top rope. I guess if you wanna be bold, top rope. 

Oh, look, Trevor needs attention. And I just gave him some!

It isn't that top roping is less safe, but rather that top roping certain routes with just a the top anchors can be unsafe period.  Not all climbs are appropriate for top ropes.

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

I’m inexperienced 

blah, blah, blah

I made it into an abbreviated version.

You’re welcome

Chad Miller wrote:

I made it into an abbreviated version.

You’re welcome

So lets dig into that how can I gain more experience/improve my climbing to understand that top roping is actually safer? Should I climb more (how many pitches should I aim for)? Should I top rope more or less than I currently do? Different style? Help me help you?

FrankPS wrote:

Oh, look, Trevor needs attention. And I just gave him some!

How am I supposed to catch up to your post count if I don't post?

Edit: I didnt think there would be much backlash. Mostly just making the point that seeing a route listed as TR and thinking its super safe does not make any sense.

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

So lets dig into that how can I gain more experience/improve my climbing to understand that top roping is actually safer?

you're looking at this wrong. "safe" is a subjective term. think about the relative risk of both activities and come back with a full report.

0/10. 

“Lead Climbing is Often Safer than Top Rope”

This is totally correct. There hasn’t been a leader fall accident in years. Yet, body bags are just piling up from climbers skidding across slabs and scraping their knees. 

Greg D wrote:

“Lead Climbing is Often Safer than Top Rope”

This is totally correct. There hasn’t been a leader fall accident in years. Yet, body bags are just piling up from climbers skidding across slabs and scraping their knees. 

Not sure if your agreeing with me. I can think of three deaths of people setting up top ropes. I don’t wanna get too into the details but little si, gunks and rumney are ones I can think of.

There is a hole in your life, and these posts aren't ever going to fill it. We are all struggling to engage and feel relevant during this pandemic and its aftermath and maybe this is how you seek stimulation. If your posts could only be useful in any way, that would be one thing. As it is, they pass by like farts in the wind - briefly annoying but ultimately forgettable. Just imagine, you are the first guy to ever ponder the fact that toprope has its own risks. Next, will you ask us to ponder the deep thought that seat belts don't protect against all car accidents? Do tell!

I actually kind of agree with this to a point. Down low, with a dynamic rope on a long route, there is so much rope stretch that unless you’re being basically being pulled up, you can easily deck. I’ve seen it happen a few times. 

To be honest, a lot of routes are a pita to top rope and are much easier to just lead. But on the other hand, there are plenty of routes that the opposite could be said, and are much safer to top rope.

saign charlestein wrote:

I actually kind of agree with this to a point. Down low, with a dynamic rope on a long route, there is so much rope stretch that unless you’re being basically being pulled up, you can easily deck. I’ve seen it happen a few times.

Again, as mentioned up-thread, not all routes are suitable for top roping.That is the aspect the OP completely misses.

Not knowing how to set up a top rope anchor and safe guard yourself from working near a cliff edge at height can be dangerous. Yes.

Directionals.

Revolutionary.

Melanie Shea wrote:

Not knowing how to set up a top rope anchor and safe guard yourself from working near a cliff edge at height can be dangerous. Yes.

Thats a good boil down and I'll add dont kill yourself setting up a TR, its just not worth it. If only people knew what goes into setting up all of those TRs at the gym...

Trevor Taylor wrote:

Not sure if your agreeing with me. I can think of three deaths of people setting up top ropes. I don’t wanna get too into the details but little si, gunks and rumney are ones I can think of.

Did you seriously create a second account just to get around the post limit?

"Climbing is inherently dangerous"

No one on this site gets roasted more enthusiastically than trevor and i give him props for that

Please post some videos of people who can't even set up a decent top rope doing a great job lead climbing. 

Andrew Rice wrote:

Please post some videos of people who can't even set up a decent top rope doing a great job lead climbing. 

Very sadly, I've known two people who had accidents setting up top ropes. One fell about 30 feet and suffered injuries that have permanently limited her mobility. The other setting up a toprope on 25 foot cliff had a fatal fall. I was visiting with him just a week before that accident. They were both proficient climbers with one having extensive experience from crag to alpine with many first ascents. 

I'll play but I need you to work out this part of your argument:

After leading, an anchor still needs to be built.

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Try again.  You can do better.

New climbers are likely going to be on low angle terrain where a lead fall on a ledgy 5.6 is much more dangerous than a gently overhanging 5.11

IMO new climbers should only be climbing with someone that can build anchors, tell the difference between shit ones and good ones, and use directionals if there's danger of a swing or excessive rope stretch.