Getting to 5.11a sport

Claudine Longetwrote:

5.11 is where you have to start actually being athletic. Not being fat, specifically. And actually working towards climbing goals with training and getting out more. It's still not all that hard. In relation to downhill resort skiing, the basic black diamonds. 

That said, I am currently fat and cannot climb 5.11.

But I've been there many times in the past, and I'll get back. I've got my 30th revised interest in the sport going on.

Skiing black diamond is probably equivalent to 5.8.

Isn't 11a where 10d might be as hard, or harder? From what I've seen, I'm thinking this is where rests really become important, including a few moves back down to the rest? 

Black Diamond is about 5.6 tops, double Black Diamond is at best 5.7. You don't get to 5.8 till you leave the resort & have deep powder.

There’s nothing wrong with building a really broad pyramid and taking your time to move up through the grades, but I would think If you’ve onsighted 10b, you are probably strong enough to red point 11a, so I’ll tell you how I would approach your goal more directly.

 Find a line that inspires you/plays to your strengths and start working it.

 Go bolt to bolt and really refine your beta, for the cruces, but also for the easier sections. Figure out the best clipping stances for every bolt-are you reaching up to clip over head when you could do another move or two and clip at your waist from a jug? Is it worth climbing slightly out of the line to get a much comfier stance for clipping? Put some time into figuring out the  best way to use the rests.

 Figure out the optimal pacing. This depends on the nature of the route, But often this will be alternating between sprinting through cruxes and totally slowing down to rest when you can. Check out the video of Margo Hayes on realization to see this done to perfection.

I find taking video to be really helpful for refining/remembering beta. Visualize climbing the route before you fall asleep to really lock the beta in.

It might take you many sessions to send, so having some other easier side projects can be helpful to manage stoke/frustration level.

I think this is all good general advice, but no general advice is going to be as effective at improving your climbing as figuring out what your specific weaknesses are, and figuring out a good way to work on those. Think deeply about what causes you to fall/fail or ask trusted partners to give honest constructive feedback. As some others have said fear of falling is super common. Tactics are another area that can often unlock new levels of performance.

Try hard and have fun!

Mark Frumkinwrote:

Black Diamond is about 5.6 tops, double Black Diamond is at best 5.7. You don't get to 5.8 till you leave the resort & have deep powder.

damn, here i am climbing 5.11, but i've only skiied about a dozen times and am hyped to get down blues with no falls. looks like i'll be doing more skiing this winter...

J Pwrote:

damn, here i am climbing 5.11, but i've only skiied about a dozen times and am hyped to get down blues with no falls. looks like i'll be doing more skiing this winter...

Hucking backflips off of cliffs is probably equivalent to 5.11.

Old lady Hwrote:

Isn't 11a where 10d might be as hard, or harder? From what I've seen, I'm thinking this is where rests really become important, including a few moves back down to the rest? 

I think the "d" grades tend to be sustained with no single move hard enough to push it into the next "a" grade, whereas the "a" grades sometimes (but not necessarily) have one hard "a" move that gives it the grade. Most people find doing one hard move easier than sustained difficulty, but it depends on what you're good at. My first 11a and 12a sends were one move wonders.

Prav Cwrote:

I think the "d" grades tend to be sustained with no single move hard enough to push it into the next "a" grade, whereas the "a" grades sometimes (but not necessarily) have one hard "a" move that gives it the grade. Most people find doing one hard move easier than sustained difficulty, but it depends on what you're good at. My first 11a and 12a sends were one move wonders.

Thats an interesting take. Makes sense. I've had a couple of routes recently that bordered 10d/11a and 11d/12a. The 10d/11a fit that description of a hard intro and outro crux with easier climbing climbing between, but the 11d/12a was a more sustained crux with easier, but sustained climbing after. Settled on the easier side for both of them. I guess nothing in climbing fits a predefined mold.

I suggest building up a base of 10c and d climbs before ultimately trying 11a. 

Building up a base is crucial, but ive seen .10 climbers get strong super fast by TRing routes they wouldn't have gotten on for years if they were just set on 'building a base'. TR 11d, 12b, whatever you're buddy's are getting on, and that .11a won't feel so out of reach. It helps bring it down to size. I've witnessed this several times... it works.

Eat well, sleep well, hydrate, and try to climb consistently without overdoing it. I've seen a huge swing in my grades during weeks where I wasn't doing those things versus when I was. 

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

Building up a base is crucial, but ive seen .10 climbers get strong super fast by TRing routes they wouldn't have gotten on for years if they were just set on 'building a base'. TR 11d, 12b, whatever you're buddy's are getting on, and that .11a won't feel so out of reach. It helps bring it down to size. I've witnessed this several times... it works.

Second this, plenty of 5.10 climbers are already strong enough to send a 5.11 if they tried, but the mental barrier of the 10 to 11 number change prevents them from trying. In my case, I had never gotten on an 11 and was scared of having to bail and leave gear. Once I started climbing with stronger partners where leaving gear wouldn't be an issue, I found out I could already send some 11s.

Prav Cwrote:

Second this, plenty of 5.10 climbers are already strong enough to send a 5.11 if they tried, but the mental barrier of the 10 to 11 number change prevents them from trying. In my case, I had never gotten on an 11 and was scared of having to bail and leave gear. Once I started climbing with stronger partners where leaving gear wouldn't be an issue, I found out I could already send some 11s.

100% agree with this.

For me, there was such a mental barrier between the big jumps in grade. Going from 5.9 => 10a had me in my head and way way more nervous than I needed to be. The same was true of 10d => 11a, and I'm still fighting within this range. As Prav C said, it was climbing with people that could send harder routes that let me stretch my comfort zone and try things I wouldn't have usually tried. Now I'm not afraid to get on a route I know I might not be able to send. It's no big deal.

Another thing was my obsession with trying to onsight new routes. I put so much pressure on myself to climb the route cleanly that I'd delay getting on certain routes I was excited about because I didn't want to blow the chance of the onsight. Furthermore, I'd go into a route so nervous that I'd tend to climb like shit. I think this was a really overly dramatic/egoistical/silly ass way to go about climbing. It's important to remember we're not out here trying to climb like Ondra or Megos at these grades. It's not a big deal to fall and it's pushing yourself and falling on routes that is going to make you a better climber. 

Some dude I met for an outing bragged about how he redpointed some sport 5.11c in red rock—touting it was an unheard of acheivement to climb around that grade within your first three years of climbing. Please don’t be that guy. Anyone, reasonably healthy and fit, can climb  5.11/5.12 sport at least once just by climbing for fun and trying hard occasionally a couple days a week with some consistency.

This dude then proceeded to chuff on a 5.10-, drop my quick draws on a multipitch, and then capped it off by leaving behind his totems at the belay. Don’t be this guy. I hope you enjoy your climbing and find happiness in it. 

Prav Cwrote:

I think the "d" grades tend to be sustained with no single move hard enough to push it into the next "a" grade, whereas the "a" grades sometimes (but not necessarily) have one hard "a" move that gives it the grade. Most people find doing one hard move easier than sustained difficulty, but it depends on what you're good at. My first 11a and 12a sends were one move wonders.

Also? I've heard, people tend to resist bumping up into that next number, when grading. Tend to lean toward that d, which can make it a tougher climb than an a from someone else who is more objective/experienced, whatever?

It's entertaining to see the spread in grades on MP, sometimes, especially if the outliers also happen to comment!

I am personally totally clueless once something is past 12, but I can sometimes guess pretty well, by looking, even if I'd never be on anything near that.

It really gets down to three grades:

Probably?

Maybe?

No way in hell, but hey it looks fun so why not!

Keep in mind, I watch the rope gun doing the sharp end. But then? On top rope? I'm sizing up everything that rope might get me to....

In the gym, I can almost always guess, but I set once upon a time, and it's pretty easy to see what's what, even if it isn't readily apparent what they want you to do with it.

As to the "don't be that guy, guy"? 

Being excited something you didn't expect to have happen is often a big highlight for most people. But....after the miracle, well, then you gotta put the work in.

After all, if you got it by accident, maybe not even knowing? Sorta means you got no excuses, anymore!

This pointless thing we do is SO FUN!!!

:-)

I took a "Climb 5.11!" clinic a few years ago with Sonnie Trotter. He said one thing I've never forgotten, "You can't learn to climb 5.11 by climbing 5.10s". My experiences since then have confirmed that bit of wisdom. You have to start getting on harder climbs to see what they're all about. Also, climbing higher grades isn't solely about strength and fitness. You have to learn new movement techniques. 5.10s only demand so much of you, skill-wise. I think someone up thread recommended "Rock Climbing Technique: The Practical Guide to Movement Mastery". I bought it, and I'm finding it to be excellent. There are specific exercises and accompanying demonstration videos.