New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #16

It is money! 

Lori Milaswrote:

So, I'm lost in my own little world here in Josh right now.  It's still a wonderland to me.  Looks like we've picked Dog Day Afternoon (10b) as the end of season project. I have fallen in love with this rock, the line, the various challenges.  And I'm really not up to it.  I don't know if I ever will be, but if trying counts for anything... I should get points for that.    

Hard projecting is supposed to be hard at the start :)   Part of the fun is how something impossible can become easy with enough practice.

Cool pics - make me want to get out to J-tree someday.  

Well y'all may remember that after one of my moves, in December, I started up hangboarding again, pushed it too hard right out of the gate, and injured myself.  I thought it was just some regular strain, and backed off for a while.  

I think, six months later (with very little improvement), I've finally realized that it's medial epicondylitis.  Had it once before in each arm, maybe 18 and 20 years ago, respectively.  That really sucks.  My season is probably over now before it properly starts.  Any advice is welcome.

GO

GabeOwrote:

Well y'all may remember that after one of my moves, in December, I started up hangboarding again, pushed it too hard right out of the gate, and injured myself.  I thought it was just some regular strain, and backed off for a while.  

I think, six months later (with very little improvement), I've finally realized that it's medial epicondylitis.  Had it once before in each arm, maybe 18 and 20 years ago, respectively.  That really sucks.  My season is probably over now before it properly starts.  Any advice is welcome.

GO

Oh no that's no good. I had that a few years ago. Stopped climbing for a month then eased back in to it and was fine. I know I often push myself too hard. My climbing mate can't believe how, with all my injuries, I keep going. However, I'm starting to learn that I need to back off... I'd rather climb easy stuff than not at all. I wonder what I'm trying to prove sometimes and to whom? 

GabeOwrote:

Well y'all may remember that after one of my moves, in December, I started up hangboarding again, pushed it too hard right out of the gate, and injured myself.  I thought it was just some regular strain, and backed off for a while.  

I think, six months later (with very little improvement), I've finally realized that it's medial epicondylitis.  Had it once before in each arm, maybe 18 and 20 years ago, respectively.  That really sucks.  My season is probably over now before it properly starts.  Any advice is welcome.

GO

Talk to a good PT. I have chronic golfer’s elbow, and my wife’s (a PT) program has kept it under control. 

Randywrote:

Prior to qualifying for Medicare, my (and my wife's) private insurance coverage monthly premiums were astronomical and still sported a very high deductible and only covered so much of a bill, etc. 

Now, my premiums (Medicare A&B plus Supplemental Coverage) are low and basically cover everything. Medicare has incredibly low overhead costs (less than 2%; Private coverage administrative costs range from 11% to 20%). My younger bride's premiums are still sky-high and coverage is less than optimal.

This is deceptive because the average payout of a medicare claim is higher. So if medicare pays $500 for a medical bill and admin cost is $10 this makes medicare look good. If a health insurer pays $20 for the same procedure and admin cost is $8 then the health insurer is worse with this metric. I would not tout this metric as good without also providing analysis that the medicare claim itself is lower. You also have to consider claim frequency. 

As for the premium aspect there are soo many conflating factors. Medicare is partially paid for FICA which typical insurance premiums are not. Also the regulation on the carriers creates significant cross subsidation by the healthy towards the unhealthy.

And, we all pay for the large number of uninsured in this country -- about 30 million people -- in increased costs. Treating the very sick is far more costly than preventative care -- which the un and under insured commonly forego.

With so many families financially ruined by medical bills in this country -- even those with coverage (it is THE leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the US), maybe we should  join every other industrialized nations on the planet and provide coverage for everyone. 

Yeah it sucks as someone who has footed huge medical bills.

I am not really trying to make a political statement but most debates about medical insurance cost are grounded in this abstract anti-factual way. As an actuary for a mutual company I can assure you the admin/operating cost between federally run plans/mutual company run plans/for profit plans are erratic at best. While it seems that for profit companies are sitting on piles of money, I think 40% of plans are held by mutual companies which should either result in decreased premium or dividends. There hasn't been downward pressure on premiums so I would imagine the premiums havent been historically excessive. I don't think there is anyway you can guarantee a new system that would cover 10x as many people that are a significantly different population would operate with more efficiency or less (especially if you look at how FAIR plans, Flood, Crop, and other forms of federal insurance have operated in the past).

Separate from the admin fees is the theory the losses will be lower, which I don't think is a guarantee. There are a lot of components to consider when looking at something as an actuary. The simplest approach is to look at the frequency of claims and the average cost of claims. Theoretically the average cost should come down but we also should assume that the frequency will be a lot higher. How will these offset? I have no idea, and neither do the smarter math nerds.

In short, there is no guarantee that medicare for all would be cheaper or more expensive and anyone who thinks they know the answer should come get paid to be a math nerd (the exams are no joke). I am more infavor of medicare for all than not but I don't think its gonna be cheap and that is fine.

Also worth pointing out that medicare for all would benefit me professionally.

all you old guys pushing your limits and training to unexpected  and violent failure. More power to you. I would personally much rather be like Fritz Wiesner.  just cruising up the easy classics in my eighties sans rope..  

And smiling all the time !!!!

Alan Rubinwrote:

And smiling all the time !!!!

Smiling because in his youth he was arguably the best climber in the world.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

all you old guys pushing your limits and training to unexpected  and violent failure. More power to you. I would personally much rather be like Fritz Wiesner.  just cruising up the easy classics in my eighties sans rope..  

So how old are you, Nick?  I'm sort of bi-polar in regards to age. Today I'll maintain I'm still young, tomorrow I'll be whining about being old.  I don't think anyone would actually say I even climb anything hard. It's pretty much middling sort of stuff really.  I don't even train, I just climb. At times I'll do weighted chinups, a rock ring work out or a gymnastic ring workout but it's really quite rare.  

BTW, if I DID train and climb hard, I think risk of 'unexpected and violent failure' is arguably less than soloing, even if it's easy terrain.  Unexpected and violent failure while soloing means death. Unexpected and violent failure while training hard might mean injury, even permanent injury but must probably NOT death   

Fritz Weisner was a dick.

Todd Berlier wrote:

heres an FA from monday that i thought was really good. it goes at about V5 with the crux at about halfway. becomes v0 once the heal hook is over. i rapped it first to brush and feel the holds and make sure nothing would break. i also climbed up to the crux move about three times jumping off to get a feel for the fall.

Looks great!  I've been developing some cool boulder problems with a friend, but here in the east bouldering season is pretty much over, in the 80s yesterday.  

Do you ever work the moves on a gri gri on highballs?  

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

all you old guys pushing your limits and training to unexpected  and violent failure. More power to you. I would personally much rather be like Fritz Wiesner.  just cruising up the easy classics in my eighties sans rope..  

I see it like this. My wife and I have felt the clock ticking the last couple of years, and we both sent our hardest routes over the last year. We used to do a lot of easy cruiser routes in our youth, but really, we can save those for when we ARE 80. For trying hard, and that is relative, the time is now. As my wife said to me, “I don’t want to turn 70 and still climb 5.10.”

Anyway, in my view, you can try hard at any age. However, if you try hard at our age without training (and resting) you may get hurt. 

Frank Steinwrote:

I see it like this. My wife and I have felt the clock ticking the last couple of years, and we both sent our hardest routes over the last year. We used to do a lot of easy cruiser routes in our youth, but really, we can save those for when we ARE 80. For trying hard, and that is relative, the time is now. As my wife said to me, “I don’t want to turn 70 and still climb 5.10.”

Anyway, in my view, you can try hard at any age. However, if you try hard at our age without training (and resting) you may get hurt. 

For clarification... does your wife mean that she wants to climb MORE than 5.10 at 70, or less?  

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately, too.  Most of you here have the advantage of years of climbing, and you know what you can and cannot do.  I don't, I have no clue where my limits are, or when the other shoe will drop and suddenly it's 'over'.   But, I'm tired of dreading that day... and tired of letting it color whatever fun I'm having now. 

About a year ago I decided to move here to Josh and give myself  'One year of climbing'.  I don't think my year is over just yet, but I just wanted to see whether I'd fall apart, quit, get injured, or do something mind-blowing during this year.  So far, it's the later.

I had the sudden impulse yesterday to go ahead and see what's possible over the next full year, and not go on Cruise Control just yet.  But I know this much... to try hard without preparation, training, strength and endurance work guarantees injury and the potential end of the fun.  My real commitment is to take the prep work much more seriously going forward.  

I think COVID threw a monkey-wrench in everyone's plans and fitness.   So, we should have a 'do-over' of the year of climbing.     I think I'm ready for it. 

Lori Milaswrote:

For clarification... does your wife mean that she wants to climb MORE than 5.10 at 70, or less?  

She was exaggerating a little. She’s mostly a sport climber, and has been doing .10 to mid .11 sport routes for about 25 years. What she meant was that she did not want to hit 70 and never have improved. 

Lori?

I can't help but wonder....

You have often said things that seem like part of your brain thinks you're not "allowed" this, somehow. Or, it will be taken away.

Yes, part of that is logical. But? 

Maybe?

You are perhaps a bit like I am? My history with the alcoholic husband, meant that I always expected (correctly) for something to go wrong. All happiness will be punished, even if unintentioned. I just chose to have a life anyway. That, was the great gift climbing gave me, motivation to not just stay alive, but be alive.

Just go for it.* You've more than earned your time for you.

Best, Helen

*insert the usual multipage ygd/you're too old/act your age disclaimers here. Initial the forms ad nauseum, then blithely go on about your business of living, as you see fit.**

**i.e., take a shot at ice climbing! :-)

Carl. at least with death you get to move on. with permanant injury you get to suffer here and not be able to climb... 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

....In short, there is no guarantee that medicare for all would be cheaper or more expensive and anyone who thinks they know the answer should come get paid to be a math nerd (the exams are no joke). I am more infavor of medicare for all than not but I don't think its gonna be cheap and that is fine.

Also worth pointing out that medicare for all would benefit me professionally.

Trevor,

It's great to see a knowledgeable analysis, thank you. 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

This is deceptive because the average payout of a medicare claim is higher. So if medicare pays $500 for a medical bill and admin cost is $10 this makes medicare look good. If a health insurer pays $20 for the same procedure and admin cost is $8 then the health insurer is worse with this metric. I would not tout this metric as good without also providing analysis that the medicare claim itself is lower. You also have to consider claim frequency. 

As for the premium aspect there are soo many conflating factors. Medicare is partially paid for FICA which typical insurance premiums are not. Also the regulation on the carriers creates significant cross subsidation by the healthy towards the unhealthy.

Yeah it sucks as someone who has footed huge medical bills.

I am not really trying to make a political statement but most debates about medical insurance cost are grounded in this abstract anti-factual way. As an actuary for a mutual company I can assure you the admin/operating cost between federally run plans/mutual company run plans/for profit plans are erratic at best. While it seems that for profit companies are sitting on piles of money, I think 40% of plans are held by mutual companies which should either result in decreased premium or dividends. There hasn't been downward pressure on premiums so I would imagine the premiums havent been historically excessive. I don't think there is anyway you can guarantee a new system that would cover 10x as many people that are a significantly different population would operate with more efficiency or less (especially if you look at how FAIR plans, Flood, Crop, and other forms of federal insurance have operated in the past).

Separate from the admin fees is the theory the losses will be lower, which I don't think is a guarantee. There are a lot of components to consider when looking at something as an actuary. The simplest approach is to look at the frequency of claims and the average cost of claims. Theoretically the average cost should come down but we also should assume that the frequency will be a lot higher. How will these offset? I have no idea, and neither do the smarter math nerds.

In short, there is no guarantee that medicare for all would be cheaper or more expensive and anyone who thinks they know the answer should come get paid to be a math nerd (the exams are no joke). I am more infavor of medicare for all than not but I don't think its gonna be cheap and that is fine.

Also worth pointing out that medicare for all would benefit me professionally.

Are we figuring your age in dog years? Or are we considering you a guest common tater? Or are you way, way, way older than I thought you were (dunno if that's good or bad)?

:-)

H.

Todd Berlier wrote:

heres an FA from monday that i thought was really good. it goes at about V5 with the crux at about halfway. becomes v0 once the heal hook is over. i rapped it first to brush and feel the holds and make sure nothing would break. i also climbed up to the crux move about three times jumping off to get a feel for the fall.

Dang! Nice! You make it look easy...but better yet? It looks fun! Not that I could do any bit of it, lol!

Loved the polite little whoop and "that was scary", at the end.

I still miss my boulder guy. That was such a treat, to be out with someone who was close to being sponsorable. I don't remember just what he topped out at, but double digit boulder grade.

I depart for City on Monday. Some of the stuff is still lying around from last trip, lol!

Gabe, I hope you're able to get some PT and make this manageable. Can you climb sans one appendage? I made a trip to Maple Canyon and a trip to City of Rocks, on a sprained ankle, a couple years ago. :-) Come to City sometime anyway, and we can at least hike your legs off!

Best, Helen