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Where would you suggest getting experience on mixed alpine?

Original Post
Tj Carney · · New Albany, IN · Joined May 2017 · Points: 5

Looking to gain experience in mixed alpine climbing. What would be some of the best locations to look into? 

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 470

Tetons 

Joey Jarrell · · SLC · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 145

Not Arizona.

Colin OBrien · · Maine · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 155

In the US, the cascades are going to give you a true mix of rock and snow, with some ice.  Some of our great alpinist like ed viesturs and Colin Haley cut their teeth in the cascades.  Nice mix of technical routes and high altitude volcano routes.

Montana will get you the best ice in the lower 48.  Alaska will get you world class experience.

What are you looking to climb?

Dan B · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 10

Tetons or North Cascades. Cut your teeth on some Fred Beckey classics!

Bogdan Petre · · West Lebanon, NH · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 1,162

Rocky Mountain National Park is an important one to add to the list.

You need alpine mixed terrain but you also need easy and reliable access so you can rack up mileage. Both the Alps and RMNP check that box. The Tetons do not. Don't know the Cascades.

In all cases you need some familiarity with the local scene to (a) know what the good routes are and (b) know when they're "in". Most of the climbing isn't obvious on MP. Sometimes there are guidebooks to help, but they're rare. Be prepared to invest some time figuring the place out before you start seeing results.

Alan Rubin · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 10

While it is not totally clear, it seems that OP is most interested in learning 'traditional' mixed, alpine climbing, not 'modern mixed' winter climbing as suggested in Bogdan's response (as there isn't much "unavoidable avalanche terrain" in the summer Tetons). While historically the Tetons were the classic 'entry point' for being introduced to these skills, climate change, has negatively impacted that Range (and much of the rest of the 'lower 48') in what is on offer in terms of the snow and ice aspects. Despite this, the Tetons are a great place to learn general mountaineering skills such as route-finding, moving fast (though safely), dealing with variable rock quality, climb 'strategies', etc. RMNP and certain other Colorado mountains also have options for practicing these skills, but the Tetons are more concentrated. Certain Sierra ranges, such as the Palisades, are also good options. As stated above, the Cascades are definitely the most alpine area in the 'lower 48', with the most extensive glacier systems. Many of the routes there require more advanced skills or higher levels of commitment, but there are also more moderate options appropriate to create a 'learning curve'. Even better, though, are areas north of the border--there is a great selection of alpine climbs of all difficulties--not just in the Rockies, but ranges such as the Selkirks and Purcells as well, that are ideal for learning and practicing alpine mixed skills.

Bogdan Petre · · West Lebanon, NH · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 1,162
Alan Rubinwrote:

While it is not totally clear, it seems that OP is most interested in learning 'traditional' mixed, alpine climbing, not 'modern mixed' winter climbing as suggested in Bogdan's response (as there isn't much "unavoidable avalanche terrain" in the summer Tetons). While historically the Tetons were the classic 'entry point' for being introduced to these skills, climate change, has negatively impacted that Range (and much of the rest of the 'lower 48') in what is on offer in terms of the snow and ice aspects. Despite this, the Tetons are a great place to learn general mountaineering skills such as route-finding, moving fast (though safely), dealing with variable rock quality, climb 'strategies', etc. RMNP and certain other Colorado mountains also have options for practicing these skills, but the Tetons are more concentrated. Certain Sierra ranges, such as the Palisades, are also good options. As stated above, the Cascades are definitely the most alpine area in the 'lower 48', with the most extensive glacier systems. Many of the routes there require more advanced skills or higher levels of commitment, but there are also more moderate options appropriate to create a 'learning curve'. Even better, though, are areas north of the border--there is a great selection of alpine climbs of all difficulties--not just in the Rockies, but ranges such as the Selkirks and Purcells as well, that are ideal for learning and practicing alpine mixed skills.

When I think 'mixed alpine', I think alpine routes that call for climbing in crampons and protecting with rock gear. When I think of "getting experience" my mind goes to places with lots of reliable and quality options that will progressively challenge a person. I'm not needlessly limiting myself to traditional (one tool) or modern (two tool). Unfortunately, in much of the lower 48 neither exist during the summer. As far as I can tell, the Tetons and Palisades are alpine rock venues where any snow or ice on route during the summer is a nuisance not a feature (with the famous exceptions like the BIC or U/V notch couloirs being just that: exceptional).

As a modern mixed alpine training ground RMNP is unparalleled in the lower 48, but there's plenty of traditional mixed too. Dreamweaver (Meeker), Flying Dutchman (Longs), Martha (Mt Lady Wash), Notch Couloir or Kieners (Longs), Deborah (Arrowhead), Hourglass Couloir (Arrowhead), Blitzen Ridge (Ypsilon), and Quicksilver (Taylor Peak) all come to mind as routes that could be done in classic style with a single axe and passive rock pro, minimal approach or objective hazard, have reliable conditions, and are classics at the grade. All fall/winter/spring routes, but that's just the way it is most places in the lower 48.

During the summer in the lower 48 you're limited to the Cascades in my opinion.

Jason A · · WASHINGTON · Joined Sep 2019 · Points: 20

A great way to start gaining the experience in summer is to search out multiple pitch routes (trad of course), get confident in setting up belays and rope management. Maybe take a piton or 2 and play around setting them. In my experience climbing with people new to Alpine the largest area of unease is having doubt when setting up a system when its dark, below freezing and snowing sideways, if you gain the experience, knowledge, and muscle memory while comfortably on warm rock you will be more at ease when conditions are less than Ideal (less than Ideal for people who dont enjoy being on the side of a cliff pre dawn, with spin drift blasting you in face, My favorite time of year!) Get comfortable hanging off less than perfect anchors, (safe anchors just less than Ideal), there are usually no chains up there, only the defects in the rock or ice.

Bogdan Petre · · West Lebanon, NH · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 1,162
Jason Awrote:

A great way to start gaining the experience in summer is to search out multiple pitch routes (trad of course), get confident in setting up belays and rope management. Maybe take a piton or 2 and play around setting them. In my experience climbing with people new to Alpine the largest area of unease is having doubt when setting up a system when its dark, below freezing and snowing sideways, if you gain the experience, knowledge, and muscle memory while comfortably on warm rock you will be more at ease when conditions are less than Ideal (less than Ideal for people who dont enjoy being on the side of a cliff pre dawn, with spin drift blasting you in face, My favorite time of year!) Get comfortable hanging off less than perfect anchors, (safe anchors just less than Ideal), there are usually no chains up there, only the defects in the rock or ice.

Hammering pitons into established rock routes is not how most mixed or aid climbers learn to place pitons, and is a good way for a climber to get themselves run out of town. I think it's irresponsible advice which is at best lacking some important qualification.

On a related subject, mixed climbing ethics vary from area to area. It's good to be considerate and learn the local ethics before doing any mixed climbing somewhere unfamiliar.

Jason A · · WASHINGTON · Joined Sep 2019 · Points: 20
Bogdan Petrewrote:

Hammering pitons into established rock routes is not how most mixed or aid climbers learn to place pitons, and is a good way for a climber to get themselves run out of town. I think it's irresponsible advice which is at best lacking some important qualification.

On a related subject, mixed climbing ethics vary from area to area. It's good to be considerate and learn the local ethics before doing any mixed climbing somewhere unfamiliar.

I was not clear enough, when i mentioned play around with pitons, i meant from the ground, not on established routes! Thanks for bringing that up.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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