What is the stupidest/unsafe thing you have seen at the crag?

Andre Chiquitowrote:

Eventually the angel won out and, as they were packing their rope up to go home, I told them we could get their draw down if they waited about a minute, as my friend was about to lower the route she had just finished and could easily swing over to snag their draw. 

some heroes don't wear capes

This gem happened a month ago:

Guy with pretty young girlfriend clearly new to climbing leads a route, clips the lowest link of one chain with a regular draw, lowers and cleans.

Did I mention GF was belaying with a Grigri and her thumb holding the cam down, no hand on brake, the entire time?

Then GF topropes the route with her whole life dependent on a single non-locker attached to the weakest link in the anchor. Fortunately, she didn't get too far off the ground before coming down.

I'd say they're a perfect match.

No, I didn't say something. Honestly, I was rather speechless.

This next one is a little hard to describe. Kinda you had to be there; those who were had slack jaws.

Guy walks up to wall with wife or GF, stands under a series of sport routes that go from 5.8 to 11b, and proclaims that "Everything here is like 5.5 and 5.6."

I think he confused the wall for the next one over, where routes are 5.6-5.8. I whispered to my partner that she should get ready for a show.

So he starts up a 10c. The first bolt is pretty low, but not easy to clip from below unless you're at least 6'.

This is the part that's hard to describe:

He's struggling to reach the clip. So he manages to get up enough to hook a finger through the hanger. Then he pulls up, draw in the other hand, with the intent to pull his finger out and clip the draw in at the same time, and then he'll hold the dogbone and clip the rope.

Somehow, he pulls this off. Almost. He makes the crazy switch, but he can't hang on to the dogbone. So he decks.

He wasn't hurt, but he was shaken up. I walk up and offer to be a human stick clip since I can reach the first bolt from the deck, but he declines.

They move over to another route that's even harder. He sits and thinks about it for a bit, and then they leave. The only good decision he made that day.

If I see behavior with an immanent risk of death or destruction, I'll move to intervene.

For example, if at a single pitch sport crag, I hear a climber say "off belay" I will look at the belayer, and if they actually take their climber off belay, I will move closer and calculate how to grab their rope, should the climber try to lower instead of rappel.

Otoh, climbing safety is a spectrum. None of us are 'safe'. I'm not the arbiter of other people's safety.

If someone else chooses to skate closer to the margin than I prefer, either through ignorance or design, good for them. And good luck!

Robert Swrote:

...He's struggling to reach the clip. So he manages to get up enough to hook a finger through the hanger. Then he pulls up, draw in the other hand, with the intent to pull his finger out and clip the draw in at the same time, and then he'll hold the dogbone and clip the rope...

...So he decks...

Like so many of these are unfortunate moments, this one is easily avoidable. PSA: if you don't have a fancy stick clip, you can actually just use an actual stick and some climber's tape. I'd say most of us have hopped on the wrong route at some point and gotten completely sandbagged. But there are ways to keeping it from being a total sketch-fest. Better to bruise your ego instead of your spine. 

And as for people sticking their fingers in a hanger... ((shudder)). Yeah, just don't do that. 

Once I was climbing a desert tower when, above me, a party of two zippered their gear and their anchor failed. They fell on either side of me so the rope went across my belly while the two flailing gumbos acted as counter weights to each other. Eventually I was able to lean back enough to let the rope roll over my face and... wait. Nope. Sorry. I'm getting my wires crossed, that's from Vertical Limit. Weird. It felt so real!

something concerning that i have seen on a routine basis lately...:

newly minted single pitch instructor has a bunch of beginners out and says that guide mode belaying is safer and more efficient than belaying through a re-direct because if there is an emergency and you need to escape the belay it will save a couple steps.

then, newly minted SPI demonstrates guide mode belaying, continuously providing commentary that "you can't let it do this, don't let this touch that, etc, etc, etc).  Then, newly minted SPI starts hopelessly describing the 12 step program of how to lower a climber without killing them.  You can just see the beginners' eyes glaze over.  After all of this, the newly minted SPI has the beginners repeat 10 times - "guide mode is the greatest thing since sliced bread."

Explain to newly minted SPI that the odds overwhelmingly favor that the emergency that the belayer needs to escape from is due to a guide mode lowering fuck up. 

haha, you would be wasting your time trying to explain this to the fluffy bunnies, bless their hearts...

SinRopa wrote:

Was the SPI at the base of the climb, or the top?  I agree that belaying the second in guide mode up to the top of a pitch is safer and more efficient.  Guide mode lowering is rarely either though.

I agree with the more efficient part, and I use guide mode all the time. But safer? If nothing goes wrong they're equally safe. If you run into a problem belaying the second the more common thing you will need to do is lower the second, for which guide mode is more dangerous, complicated, and slow. The odds of needing to escape the belay are WAY WAY less than needing to lower someone.

SinRopa wrote:

I mean...if nothing goes wrong then even taking in slack hand over hand with the end of the rope in my teeth is equally safe too...

I agree that escaping the belay is rarer than needing to lower someone.  IME though, if we’re talking about belaying the second up to the top, lowering someone is sort of rare too.  Certainly rarer than needing to help them through a hard section, or wanting to get a pic or a quick drink.

Lowering someone all the way is relatively rare, but lowering them a few feet so they can get to stance to try a section again (or if they're hanging below a roof or other situation where they can't get a purchase on the rock) happens a lot, more than helping them through a hard section IME. And for helping them thru a hard section a redirect is better too. You can simply lock the belay device and squat down in your harness, vs. having to rig something up or pull down on the rope through a high friction locking setup. Again I use guide mode probably more than re-direct for convenience sake, but it's more complicated and more room for error IMO and I recognize that.

If you're talking about belaying two seconds, then I'd say guide mode is safer. But something you should never be teaching beginners.

SinRopa wrote:

Was the SPI at the base of the climb, or the top?  I agree that belaying the second in guide mode up to the top of a pitch is safer and more efficient.  Guide mode lowering is rarely either though.

they are usually talking about multi-pitch climbing (as it sounds a lot more impressive to beginners).  another thing they don't fully explain to beginners is that on a multi-pitch climb the belayer will need to move the device from the power point to their harness, and that the climber needs to clip into the anchor while doing this.  (this is a pet peave of mine as 2 people have taken me completely off belay in this situation...)

SinRopa wrote:

...Certainly rarer than needing to help them through a hard section, or wanting to get a pic or a quick drink.

I would think it would be a LOT easier to help someone through a hard section belaying with a re-direct.

slimwrote:

they are usually talking about multi-pitch climbing (as it sounds a lot more impressive to beginners).  another thing they don't fully explain to beginners is that on a multi-pitch climb the belayer will need to move the device from the power point to their harness, and that the climber needs to clip into the anchor while doing this.  (this is a pet peave of mine as 2 people have taken me completely off belay in this situation...)

What does SPI stand for?

Single Pitch Instructor

Bill Czajkowskiwrote:

What does SPI stand for?

Simply Paid Instruction-fees
Specifically Pandering to Elitists (close enough)

Eric Howewrote:

Watched a guy on a ~5.5 route next to me untie his rope to thread through the anchors to rap.  No big deal, until I climbed a little higher and realized he didn't have a PAS or anything to go direct to the anchors.  He was attempting to re-tie his 8 one handed while holding on with his other hand.  Had a decent stance, but still..... Didn't want to bear witness to any more shenanigans, so we left

Holy shit, was this at Foster Falls? Because I definitely saw the same as we were working our way through. We stopped and looked for a second, realized what was happening, and turned around.

slimwrote:

something concerning that i have seen on a routine basis lately...:

newly minted single pitch instructor has a bunch of beginners out and says that guide mode belaying is safer and more efficient than belaying through a re-direct because if there is an emergency and you need to escape the belay it will save a couple steps.

then, newly minted SPI demonstrates guide mode belaying, continuously providing commentary that "you can't let it do this, don't let this touch that, etc, etc, etc).  Then, newly minted SPI starts hopelessly describing the 12 step program of how to lower a climber without killing them.  You can just see the beginners' eyes glaze over.  After all of this, the newly minted SPI has the beginners repeat 10 times - "guide mode is the greatest thing since sliced bread."

For what it's worth, that SPI was not following what AMGA teaches in the course. In top-managed sites, the taught practice is to belay with a Grigri or Munter off the anchor, not the harness. Lowering with the former requires redirecting the brake strand and with the latter, putting a friction hitch on as a backup. I prefer the Grigri because it makes it a lot easier to assist a struggling climber if necessary, which I have had to do a couple of times.

It sounds to me as though that SPI got his cert and then decided to do things his own way, which ought to be a concern for the service owner if he was working for one.

Frankly, I think belaying clients in guide mode on an ATC is pretty stupid unless for some reason you have to have them on separate ropes and climbing at the same time. Multi-pitch is also beyond the certs of an SPI, and although many of us climb multi- recreationally, you may be asking for trouble with AMGA and your insurance if you take clients above your pay grade and something goes wrong.

https://instagram.com/dumbanchors/

Enjoy

Mark Pilatewrote:

Explain to newly minted SPI that the odds overwhelmingly favor that the emergency that the belayer needs to escape from is due to a guide mode lowering fuck up. 

As an SPI, my preference, in order, to bring up and number of followers is grigri, munter, guide mode. 

Sure hope I don't drop my grigri and munters.