Cancel Free Soloing

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

seems like a lot of you folks shouldn't be climbers. perhaps you all are more suited to golf or curling.  

This could sum up so many threads. 

A V wrote:

The most recent high profile fatality in Squam was a 13+ trad climber who died in a leader fall on a 5.4 pitch (on a route that he had soloed before).

With that information in mind, do you still have the hubris to say that you are simply too skilled and experienced to make the same mistake?

To say it had anything to do with skill or experience is completely misrepresenting the situation, a hold broke, maybe you could argue that section was chossy idk the route, the guy had done it lots of times so I imagine he didn't think so/got to relaxed on that pitch. I've solo'd my fair share of chossy shit, it's slow and very very careful with testing of every hold and foot hold, but in the end shit happens, people die on chossy shit roped up, people rip full pitches, people hit big flakes, holds break, leading or soloing it can lead to a fatal outcome. So yeah who falls on 5.6? If a hold breaks everyone, lets all agree only climb continuous cracks because holds can break.

My worst climbing injury was a partial MCL tear from hiking away from a climb. Go figure.

I don't know the answer to all of this stuff, but what I do know is I want to have say in what other people can and should be doing. That much is important and must be protected at all costs.

Bill Schickwrote:

Lol - in the past few years at least 4 of the most capable, hardest climbing, most speed record holding Minions have had accidents with injuries or are dead - on roughly 5.6 terrain.

Still waiting for you to substantiate this . . .

Alexander Blumwrote:

Still waiting for you to substantiate this . . .

I’m not going to name them.  2 everyone has heard about - one was linked to above, the other likely few knew he was a Minion.  The other 2 have not shared details beyond a few. 

Alexander Blumwrote:

Still waiting for you to substantiate this . . .

Look it up yourself. Amazing climbers get killed on super easy climbs/ even class 4 approaches all the time

A V wrote:

You act as if there is nothing we can do to prevent deadly falls. 

The reality is trad climbing is inheriently a dangerous game, yes you can protect every 3 meters of very easy ground but is it realistic to expect someone to do so? Also, sometimes there just isn't, some routes are terrifying and dangerous despite peoples efforts to protect them, some piles of chose just dont take pro, some featurless granite slabs just don't have a safe amount of pro on them and people like them like that.

The takeway you should get from that accident is "oh yeah, I should probably place more pro on easy climbing - and maybe pay very close attention to the quality of the rock and protect the chossy sections a little more (even if they are easy)"

not "oh, well holds break and there's nothing that we can do about that - roped or unroped" 

All that being said, you answered your own statement perfectly. "So yeah, who falls on 5.6? If a hold breaks - everyone"

My point here is it could be a hold breaking, a landslide, a serac collapse or the wall literally just falling down, these scenarios can only really be avoided by not going into those enviroments, but good luck telling people to not go to dangerous places and do dangerous things.

that guy named sebwrote:

"risk your life on a 5.6" who falls on 5.6?

This is some classic 2015 seb

Astrid. your reading comprehension is rather lacking.  My story was not about us failing.  We did not fail at anything. We climbed 3 pitches in the time it took the party ahead of us to climb 1/2 a pitch.  My story was completly on topic as you asked what is the right thing to do when someone overtakes you. My story was about someone who did the wrong thing.  That person was at a bomb proof bolted anchor on a steep wall. The correct thing to do would have been to invite my partner who was leading to come on up and clip in. The wrong thing to do and this was done out of insecurity and lack of experience was to declare that it would be too crowded and not safe for my 140lb partner to share the bolted anchor.  They then proceeded to not let my partner clip in for well over an hour , likly closer to two hrs while their leader bounce tested every placement on an A1 crack.    If you can't figure out this basic courtesy please stick to golf. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Astrid. your reading comprehension is rather lacking.  My story was not about us failing.  We did not fail at anything. We climbed 3 pitches in the time it took the party ahead of us to climb 1/2 a pitch.  My story was completly on topic as you asked what is the right thing to do when someone overtakes you. My story was about someone who did the wrong thing.  That person was at a bomb proof bolted anchor on a steep wall. The correct thing to do would have been to invite my partner who was leading to come on up and clip in. The wrong thing to do and this was done out of insecurity and lack of experience was to declare that it would be too crowded and not safe for my 140lb partner to share the bolted anchor.  They then proceeded to not let my partner clip in for well over an hour , likly closer to two hrs while their leader bounce tested every placement on an A1 crack.    If you can't figure out this basic courtesy please stick to golf. 

Try to be more courteous to Astrid and keep your posts a bit shorter please. 

Astrid, feel free to flag Nick's posts if you feel he is violating guideline #1.

Alexander Blumwrote:

Could someone please cite an accident where a soloist fell and hit another climber, injuring them?  Considering just how much moderate soloing occurs in places like JTree, Red Rocks, and Yosemite ... If you can’t, that argument doesn’t hold much water.

Furthermore, should faster parties be allowed to pass you? I mean, the leader could fall while passing and land on your head. Should anyone be allowed to climb above you at all? They could drop some shit. A dropped C4 or gallon of water could be deadly.

Climbing is risky. The risks exist on a continuum, but there is no “safe” form of climbing. A pretty fundamental aspect of this sport is that people can choose where they want to sit on the continuum. If people start dying from being struck by fallen soloists then a debate should be had, but this is ridiculous. Let people enjoy the mountains how they like.

From what little I know of the mechanics of climbing gear, typically, when you fall on your gear, you stop.  Sure, if you’re on a busy route, there exists a chance that you or your follower could fall, and accidentally knock into another person in a party below you. But that’s typically it.

On the other hand, a free soloist falling has a greater potential of taking out not just the party below them, but all parties, including themself.  

I’m not opposed to free-soloing at all. However, does annoyed me are individuals who think they’re impervious to injury, and therefore do not mitigate injury to themselves and others in their immediate sphere.  Also known as egotism, arrogance, selfishness, entitlement, and asshattery.

Sorry, but statistics speak for themselves. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Astrid. your reading comprehension is rather lacking.  My story was not about us failing.  We did not fail at anything. We climbed 3 pitches in the time it took the party ahead of us to climb 1/2 a pitch.  My story was completly on topic as you asked what is the right thing to do when someone overtakes you. My story was about someone who did the wrong thing.  That person was at a bomb proof bolted anchor on a steep wall. The correct thing to do would have been to invite my partner who was leading to come on up and clip in. The wrong thing to do and this was done out of insecurity and lack of experience was to declare that it would be too crowded and not safe for my 140lb partner to share the bolted anchor.  They then proceeded to not let my partner clip in for well over an hour , likly closer to two hrs while their leader bounce tested every placement on an A1 crack.    If you can't figure out this basic courtesy please stick to golf. 

Certainly the party ahead of you didnt think you guys were dicks for tailgating them for no apparent reason. Sometimes chilling at a belay below is the best practice but you probably know that eh?

Desert Rock Sportswrote:

How come there is no talk of the soloists who have helped newer climbers in this thread?

How many times has a passing soloist advised about a poor anchor, taught a noob bro how to belay from the top on the spot so they don't kill their second, given helpful beta about the way a route or decent goes, or helped someone not die while rappelling?

This deserves to be re-iterated. Soloists are generally kind and caring people and excellent stewards of the sport. They deserve our kind and passionate response to their chosen vocation. I always allow soloists to pass as it is the safest option for the collective. However, I believe soloists are lost souls in need guidance from the flock and it is important to break bread if possible to help them see the (potential) errors of their ways. Hostility and trepidation is not the answer.  

Tradibanwrote:

This deserves to be re-iterated. Soloists are generally kind and caring people and excellent stewards of the sport. They deserve our kind and passionate response to their chosen vocation. I always allow soloists to pass as it is the safest option for the collective. However, I believe soloists are lost souls in need guidance from the flock and it is important to break bread if possible to help them see the (potential) errors of their ways. Hostility and trepidation is not the answer.  

C’mon, don’t ruin a good thread, lol. 

Mark Pilatewrote:

C’mon, don’t ruin a good thread, lol. 

... a sure sign as any that Nick G needs to be let back in.   :)

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Astrid. your reading comprehension is rather lacking.  My story was not about us failing.  We did not fail at anything. We climbed 3 pitches in the time it took the party ahead of us to climb 1/2 a pitch.  My story was completly on topic as you asked what is the right thing to do when someone overtakes you. My story was about someone who did the wrong thing.  That person was at a bomb proof bolted anchor on a steep wall. The correct thing to do would have been to invite my partner who was leading to come on up and clip in. The wrong thing to do and this was done out of insecurity and lack of experience was to declare that it would be too crowded and not safe for my 140lb partner to share the bolted anchor.  They then proceeded to not let my partner clip in for well over an hour , likly closer to two hrs while their leader bounce tested every placement on an A1 crack.    If you can't figure out this basic courtesy please stick to golf. 

Or you could have started before them or realized they were slow and climbed something else. Or just waited. Instead you just quit and complained about it long after it happened, twice in one discussion that is about a different subject.  

You are obviously bitter and projecting. I was not in the party that you are blaming for your failure. Maybe I was on the golf course that day. Maybe completing 18 holes is not as impressive as what you were trying to do but at least I finished what I started without making any excuses.

Interesting feedback from the accident on Nutcracker

https://www.climbing.com/news/fallen-soloist-im-remorseful-for-what-happened/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=onsiteshare&fbclid=IwAR2bsgccrWXrrlG_wLuXS1K2DlSaHXUhHzRuqjojOptWjTKEMV-FYr5i7tg

Glad to hear he is in good spirits. Hope he gets stable and can start to move on with some new adventures.

Tradibanwrote:

This deserves to be re-iterated. Soloists are generally kind and caring people and excellent stewards of the sport. They deserve our kind and passionate response to their chosen vocation. I always allow soloists to pass as it is the safest option for the collective. However, I believe soloists are lost souls in need guidance from the flock and it is important to break bread if possible to help them see the (potential) errors of their ways. Hostility and trepidation is not the answer.  

Idk. When I've confronted friends about their free soloing videos on social media they've agressively told me that they're only doing it for "perfection" and "feeling free in the face of death" (despite lugging a tripod to the crag) and that I was just jealous. I feel like they're either super awesome humble people or they're total dbags trying to be a badass, no middle ground. Just my personal opinion. 

caughtinside wrote:

You mean like the statistic that a soloist has never fallen on a roped party?

My fault, my tangent.  My point was that statistics speak to free soloists eventually falling and dying. 

Look... Soloing is Aid.

You think carrying all that trad gear + a rope is easy?  True badass climbing is to place the gear, clip the rope (but don't dare sit on it) and climb the route without leaving any body parts at the bottom.  

Besides just being lame AF, soloing runs the risk of limiting rock climbing access if the bodies pile up, or an important one lands at the right time and place.