Cancel Free Soloing

I personally don’t and never will free solo, but I have a lot of respect for Peter Croft who is one of my favorite climbers. I think as long as people are being smart and not doing anything they haven’t been on before there’s no problem. I would say if your going to do it make sure that it won’t effect anyone else if you fall. It’s pretty selfish to if you go to a busy aria and fall  then someone else has to deal with it and it would most likely scare them for life. 

Live Perchedwrote:

Bisharat’s bitter snarky take on free soling, it’s critics or proponents (or whatever): no thanks.  Kalous rerunning Brad Gobright’s interview in memorium: yes please.

What was my bitter, snarky take?

Andrew Bisharatwrote:

What was my bitter, snarky take?

Quick Tradiban say that Bisharat was snarky and you will be the next guest on the runout.

It’s like someone said beetlejuice three times

This is becoming a really successful troll. Funny how fired up people get about this. Reminds me how people feel about speed climbing. You all realize your 1000 times more likely to get hit by someone rappelling off the end of their rope than by a falling soloist? Should be berate people for rappelling above us?  I think people really want to believe that what they are doing is vetted and safe and somehow different from these lunatic activities. But we should all take a hard look at our own (inherent) risk while choosing to climb. Start there. Because it’s much closer to the risk a soloist is taking than you might want to believe. Is soloing “unnecessarily dangerous?” Is climbing with a rope any more necessary or less dangerous? 

Christian Wagnerwrote:

This is becoming a really successful troll. Funny how fired up people get about this. Reminds me how people feel about speed climbing. You all realize your 1000 times more likely to get hit by someone rappelling off the end of their rope than by a falling soloist? Should be berate people for rappelling above us?  I think people really want to believe that what they are doing is vetted and safe and somehow different from these lunatic activities. But we should all take a hard look at our own (inherent) risk while choosing to climb. Start there. Because it’s much closer to the risk a soloist is taking than you might want to believe. Is soloing “unnecessarily dangerous?” Is climbing with a rope any more necessary or less dangerous? 

Agreed, climbing ropes or unroped is inherently dangerous.

So, all the more reason to not double the danger with soloists climbing through or above other climbers. 

I just relistened to this and I didn't say anything snarky or bitter. I didn't paint the critics of free-soloing as insecure, mediocre climbers. I went out of my way to say that your climbing ability says nothing about your moral worth. Do people just make shit up about what you actually think or believe?

please give me the direct quote that gave you this impression

Update: in other words, Chris had a mildly bitter take, and I said something nice,  affirming and not at all snarky? got it

This was a super fun experience for me today. Glad I dipped into this site. Carry on everyone with the good work.

Andrew Bisharatwrote:

What was my bitter, snarky take?

Awesome!!  Why do I feel like John Favreau’s character in Chef wading into a war of words with a guy who buys ink by the barrel?

Andrew, as I approach fifty I don’t have interest is crusty cynicism and jaded views in my quiet time.  I listened to early episodes of the Runout, and some recent ones.  Having read your columns and EveningSends, maybe I should have known.  I did not take notes and the days when I could cite passages from memory have long since past.  

Still in an attempt to answer earnestly  I think of a recent episode on sponsorship.  Hazel Finley in a recent interview with UKC Factor 2 (if I remember correctly) discussed switching from sponsorship to coaching so she could save a few bucks (or quid).  I found it to be an sympathetic take by a young successful person finding her way.  The runout discussion on the topic covered how trifling sponsorship was for most athletes and on the role of social media in elevating athletes. There was also an unfortunate segue into morning wood to foil a thong reference.  Not terribly sympathetic or original stuff.  There is high overlap in the two takes on sponsorship. Whether you are right or wrong is not really what I care about.  I walk the dog and listen to podcasts.  So I tune out the cynics.  As my post suggests, I did not listen to the free soloing episode. Don’t plan to.

So why am I writing this on MP on a thread launched by Tradiban the ultimate troll if I am tuning out cynics?   Well I am not walking the dog.  Different part of the day.

“Do you,” the late great DMX

Alexander Blumwrote:

Could someone please cite an accident where a soloist fell and hit another climber, injuring them?

Well, the recent MPB incident came damned close. From the MP thread Pnelson posted above:

Cole Ramey                ·        Apr 16, 2021        ·                    Unknown Hometown                            · Joined 10 days ago            · Points: 0            

I was on the ledge at the top of pitch 2. I had to dive out of the way for he almost landed on me. Spent the next 4 hours holding him till he got lifted out of there. Definitely  the craziest experience of my life, I’m still in disbelief that he lived  

seems like a lot of you folks shouldn't be climbers. perhaps you all are more suited to golf or curling.   the worst thing you can do is berate a free soloist.  soloing you need to be in a special place in your head and haveing some noob scream at you is not conducive to staying in the proper headspace. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

seems like a lot of you folks shouldn't be climbers. perhaps you all are more suited to golf or curling.   the worst thing you can do is berate a free soloist.  soloing you need to be in a special place in your head and haveing some noob scream at you is not conducive to staying in the proper headspace. 

I suspect you have not played golf.

Na. I don't play golf. I tolerate the waste of water and all the chemicals because they groom good nordic trails on the course in the winter. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

seems like a lot of you folks shouldn't be climbers. perhaps you all are more suited to golf or curling.   the worst thing you can do is berate a free soloist.  soloing you need to be in a special place in your head and haveing some noob scream at you is not conducive to staying in the proper headspace. 

Agreed, though I would argue the the soloist has a role to play in that not happening as well.

If I want to meditate and expect a quiet environment to get in the right headspace, I'm not sure it would be fair to blame the trucker on the highway next to which I elected to practice my activity....

Bill Schick wrote:

The ability to do dumb shit and die is a hallmark of freedom.

Huh?  I thought the ability to carry a loaded firearm into Walmart was the true sign of freedom...;-)

Bill Lawrywrote:

Have probably come in close contact with dozens of free soloist on climbs. Every one of them was courteous about the safety of themselves and others.

The soloists who truly endanger others are akin to the roped ones who likewise endanger others.  

Must be time to cancel the human population.

The Dark Shadows video is interesting.  Not sure if there was sound.  Still, it appears the soloist was welcomed to pass after the leader fell at a crux-ish point on P3.

There was sound.  The roped climber said “just don’t fall on me”, which I would hope most people wouldn’t say in that moment.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Na. I don't play golf. I tolerate the waste of water and all the chemicals because they groom good nordic trails on the course in the winter. 

Nick, have you ever skied the UP? Fantastic trails, and they get a lot of lake affect snow...Houghton has been my go to place for years. I have a dentist friend that lives there and is a great host.

With all of the possible risks in climbing, does this not seem like an odd one to be this concerned about? A free solo climber falling on you.

A big part of climbing seems to be the ability to evaluate risk, how much risk is acceptable to you, and your own climbing ability.

After I read the Annual AAC accident journal, I have never thought to myself, “damn, I better watch out for falling solo climbers”, but pretty much every year I do think “damn, I better be paying attention when I rappel” or “why do single pitch climbers still rappel on fixed anchors”, or “If I’m gonna do these runout moves I better be stoked on them for the right reasons and feel solid” etc etc

In any case, I wanted to avoid this thread, but keep reading the updates so that’s my fault.    Some good points have been made, and once again, Tradiban, with seemingly the greatest of ease, can pull off a car wreck mp thread that we all rubber neck.

I will also say, big thanks/respect to the hero that helped the fallen climber at manure pile, and also best wishes for a great recovery to that climber.

Tradibanwrote:

In light of recent events in which a falling free soloist almost hit and killed a climber below I think it's time to come together as a community and cancel free soloing. 

If you know someone who free solos you really should sit them down and have a talk. Passing free soloists should be given a friendly reminder of the dangers they are exposing themselves and others to. The tragic losses of some of our climbing heroes and lesser known free soloists have touched many lives and the lives lost will only increase if we don't do something as a community.

Has anyone out there had to confront a soloist, either friend or stranger? How can we save lives?

Thanks.

Do you remember free soloing above me while I was giving first aid to a climber who had taken a bad fall so you could retrieve his gear? Probably could have waited on that until after we extracted him. 

Lol nice troll