Looking for a 3rd for The Nose, El Cap 2022!

Auden Alsop wrote:

Good luck Trae, hope you find someone! 

I’m continually amazed at how willing some people are to shit all over somebody’s accomplishments and goals. 

LOL thanks, I've had multiple offers already... and aside from Bill's "Sch(t)ick  in the mud" attitude, most folks on here have been great and supportive.  What's interesting is... in my career as working as a guide in the 90's and managing a climbing gym then too... I've never really met his type before in the climbing community.  Most people are super positive, supportive and friendly.  Even a lot of the pros I met at different places were super sweet.  Course, it's the internet, and there is always a troll!  Like bridges huh? 

I know I have a lot of work to do to prepare myself... My buddy and I are thinking about trying mega laps on The Glass Menagerie  and of course stuff out @ Whiteside just to prep.  Ultimately I want to be able to do over 3000' of climbing with most of it C1/C2 range in under 10 hours here in the SouthEast.  I doubt we'll be able to NIAD, but it's what my heart wants.  Realistically we're probably going to shoot for 2-3 days though.  Time to think and prepare.  

When I was training for an Ironman, a guy I work with, who also did them and qualified for Kona etc... when I was done instead of congratulating me, he simply said "Was it everything you thought it'd be?" kinda dryly.  Interestingly enough, his name was Bill too. :)

Thanks everyone!  If I haven't responded to you yet in a PM don't worry I will!  Much <3 (Even to you too Mr. Schick- be well)

Trae

So one of my former partners is a window washer from Roanoke Virginia.  Bill S.

Nbrown above climbed with him extensively.

Bills  first trip up the nose took just over 24 hours,

Bill lead every pitch, and climbed with someone far less competent, who spoke a different language than Bill

Certainly not a typical path, but no need to crap on other’s dreams.

if I remember correctly in Yosemite,  Bill had only climbed RNWF of half dome previously to the nose.

cheers  

what month?

The idea that you HAVE to train out west in order to climb the nose (or any big rock objective) is laughable.  So many NY climbers fly west and do extended trips in the valley, and a ton climb the nose. If you are a competent trad climber and spend the hours in the gym getting your fitness up, the nose is totally doable without having to fly west and practice on a "real wall".  

Rob Dwrote:

The idea that you HAVE to train out west in order to climb the nose (or any big rock objective) is laughable.  So many NY climbers fly west and do extended trips in the valley, and a ton climb the nose. If you are a competent trad climber and spend the hours in the gym getting your fitness up, the nose is totally doable without having to fly west and practice on a "real wall".  

Having waited behind some of those people, I would ask that people please learn how to aid climb efficiently before jumping on the nose.

Matt Wetmorewrote:

Having waited behind some of those people, I would ask that people please learn how to aid climb efficiently before jumping on the nose.

A couple years ago I got to the base of the Nose five minutes before a crew of Virginians. We watched serenely from above as they clogged up the route to the degree that three or four other parties had to bail, followed by the Virginians themselves. My partner and I enjoyed an uncrowded and peaceful climb as a result. :)

Nkane 1wrote:

A couple years ago I got to the base of the Nose five minutes before a crew of Virginians. We watched serenely from above as they clogged up the route to the degree that three or four other parties had to bail, followed by the Virginians themselves. My partner and I enjoyed an uncrowded and peaceful climb as a result. :)

I've had similar experiences with Californians and Coloradans all over the West. 

Trae, if you've spent enough time on the bigger stuff in Carolina and are competent there, you should have absolutely no problems on the Yosemite trade routes.

Citing exceptions to make your argument is very easy - and weak.  I genuinely wish the OP success, but his overall odds are very low - my only point.  My first thought was the OP was a similar age to myself, and I generally don't have the time and patience to screw around these days - but others might want to experience a particular process and that's valid and fair.  However, if I were in his shoes - I'd hire a guide - no brainer - and I have many times, to eliminate the "overhead" on complicated objectives and allow me to focus on what I really want out of the experience and what I'm good at.

Bill Schickwrote:

Citing exceptions to make your argument is very easy - and weak.  I genuinely wish the OP success, but his overall odds are very low - my only point.  My first thought was the OP was a similar age to myself, and I generally don't have the time and patience to screw around these days - but others might want to experience a particular process and that's valid and fair.  However, if I were in his shoes - I'd hire a guide - no brainer - and I have many times, to eliminate the "overhead" on complicated objectives and allow me to focus on what I really want out of the experience and what I'm good at.

Not everyone needs a guide to hold their hand. 

Well here I am stewing on the Schick pile and Mr. Brown beat me to the greatest point to be made but I’ll still present my thesis statement. First let’s start with the fact it’s obvious that Bill hasn’t climbed down here... we hold our own just fine. I have passed plenty of Colorado and cali folks on route and I’m just a red neck from middle Georgia. It’s also clear that Bill has been guided a good bit. No shame Bill some of us just want a challenge. Many of us are the same people who load our own grocery’s, fix our belongings when they break or malfunction, wipe our own asses, etc. we enjoy self sufficiency and the satisfaction of doing things on our own. I also felt we should note it can be determined by the snide remarks at hand Bill is more than aware that Trae could beat him arm wrestling (both left and right) and is trying to put Trae (a complete stranger) down to improve the imaginary girth of his puny biceps. I’m not sure how bill is gaining his measure of others on this forum but I can promise you some of the folks chiming in don’t put their every tick on this website. You are merely speculating about this strangers competency and climbing level.  The last possibility is that Bill is indeed a guide and trying to conjure up business. I however find this unlikely do to his poor attitude and incompetent nature. Trae to me it sounds like you are more than capable of climbing the nose in either a 2 or 3 person team. Go HARD and you WILL send. 

Dylan Valvowrote:

Well here I am stewing on the Schick pile and Mr. Brown beat me to the greatest point to be made but I’ll still present my thesis statement. First let’s start with the fact it’s obvious that Bill hasn’t climbed down here... we hold our own just fine. I have passed plenty of Colorado and cali folks on route and I’m just a red neck from middle Georgia. It’s also clear that Bill has been guided a good bit. No shame Bill some of us just want a challenge. Many of us are the same people who load our own grocery’s, fix our belongings when they break or malfunction, wipe our own asses, etc. we enjoy self sufficiency and the satisfaction of doing things on our own. I also felt we should note it can be determined by the snide remarks at hand Bill is more than aware that Trae could beat him arm wrestling (both left and right) and is trying to put Trae (a complete stranger) down to improve the imaginary girth of his puny biceps. I’m not sure how bill is gaining his measure of others on this forum but I can promise you some of the folks chiming in don’t put their every tick on this website. You are merely speculating about this strangers competency and climbing level.  The last possibility is that Bill is indeed a guide and trying to conjure up business. I however find this unlikely do to his poor attitude and incompetent nature. Trae to me it sounds like you are more than capable of climbing the nose in either a 2 or 3 person team. Go HARD and you WILL send. 

Damn, is it wrong that I kinda feel sorry for ol' Bill now?  lmao!  Thanks Dylan.  Working hard to represent us rednecks from the south!  I can't wait to post my trip report.   

What month are you looking to climb it?

Dead Headwrote:

What month are you looking to climb it?

Still in the planning stages.  Not 100% sure just yet. Wanting to get some laps up https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105980466/the-glass-menagerie to see how efficient we are or possibly could be to ascertain if we want to push for NIAD or not.  So many questions to answer for a trip that is literally right around the corner. 

Trae,

I to have always had the dream of climbing the Nose at some point in my life.  I was also planning to make an attempt here in the next year or so as well.  I am also going to try the same training/climbing prep as you.  Long routes up Whitesides, LG, LK.  Just wanted to say it motivates me to see others with the same goals! 

I think I will be to slow for you though, since I am still to this day looking for the next gear placement on the OR, ha..  

Good luck and maybe I'll run into you out there on the rock.

Scott

S Basso1wrote:

Trae,

I to have always had the dream of climbing the Nose at some point in my life.  I was also planning to make an attempt here in the next year or so as well.  I am also going to try the same training/climbing prep as you.  Long routes up Whitesides, LG, LK.  Just wanted to say it motivates me to see others with the same goals! 

I think I will be to slow for you though, since I am still to this day looking for the next gear placement on the OR, ha..  

Good luck and maybe I'll run into you out there on the rock.

Scott

LMAO @ "looking for the next gear placement on the OR".  Totally right man!  When in doubt... run it out (cause there ain't much of a choice on Whiteside!)

Dude, I'm about to post up (somewhere when I can find out the appropriate place) about a trip I'm trying to do for The Glass Menagerie.  Chris Watford (read up a bit on this) suggested this ( mountainproject.com/route/1… ) as a route to work that would be better suited for training for The Nose.  The OR, Traditions and New Diversions are classics for sure, but I'm not sure they will prep us as much as the clean aid on TGM will.  

My first goal: Just get up TGM this May.  Then each month see if I can do laps on it... June 2 laps, July 3 laps, August 4 (or more) laps etc....  in a day.  The goal is try try and achieve 3000' in under 15 hours of climbing with 90% of it being C1-C2 as prep for the nose.  I also plan on running these into the winter of course as well as next spring.   Perhaps we could team up one or more of those trips!  

Pop on the Discord server I linked up at the first post of this thread (made an edit to add it)

Best of luck to you brother!

Trae

Edit: Did some homework and found some other great threads on TGM: 

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/114532627/glass-menagerie

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/107378709/glass-menagerie

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/114184942/the-glass-menagerie-rack

@Trae: I think it's fully possible to gain the skills and fitness to climb the Nose while in the Southeast. I climbed in NC and across the south for 7 or 8 years before moving out west and I think it provided a pretty solid foundation for my climbing. However, Bill isn't wrong in the sense that 75% or so of parties on the Nose bail before Dolt Tower. The day we sent the Nose, every party below Dolt bailed aside from us. The odds are against you no matter where you're coming from.

Sounds like you're pretty motivated, and if we succeeded you can, too ;) I've only climbed one route in the Valley on my one trip there since I only had a week to work with. We did the Nose in a day, most of it onsight (did a Sickle and Dolt run before we went all the way). You can read a series of posts about it on my Instagram if you're so inclined:

https://www.instagram.com/p/By9GmbKjsfn/

My partner is also from the south. In fact, we met in Alabama, where the rocks are...not very tall. That didn't stop him from getting creative in developing his skills to climb walls:

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/109379296/whiteside-girdle

He also did a thing on Baffin Island, with another of our mutual friends from the south:

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web17c/newswire-first-ascent-marooned-at-midnight

I mention this not to spray but more to say that NC granite can be a great basis for bigger climbs in other places. However, you do have your work cut out for you. I think the Glass Menagerie plan is a good choice, but I'd add some other things to prep, too. It's also worth thinking about how you plan to climb. NIAD means you don't really need to dial the hauling and sleeping systems, but certainly the fitness. If you do multiday, I recommend 3 days with a fix and fire off Sickle Ledge. 2 days is about the worst possible way to go. Gotta haul and also gotta be fast: worst of both worlds. Here's the training plan that worked for us and what I would do if I were in the south.

1. Be fit, in a general sense. A wall (in a day or with a pig) means that general muscular endurance is very helpful. Spend time doing dead lifts, trail running, and carrying a heavy pack up a hill. Build big work capacity.

2. Be fit in a climbing specific sense. Head to the north side of Looking Glass and get your free climbing game on. The Nose is way more manageable when 5.10 feels super solid. Do big days with multiple laps on the Sperm, Womb, Safari Jive, Seal, Cornflake, Airwaves, Creatues, P1 of the GM. If you can't do the free moves, pull through them A0. Those bits of aid/free transitions will be helpful. Classic NC slab weirdness is also very helpful for the pitches to get to Sickle.

3. Develop your aid climbing skills. This is where the GM comes into play. Laps there will definitely help you figure out the C1 game (there's only small bits of C2 on the Nose). Sounds like it's your plan, but learn to aid quickly. Treat it like free climbing. Grab the piece, walk up the ladder, fire in the next piece. Your daisies are for jugging, clipping in at anchors, making sure you don't drop your aiders, maybe using a Yosemite secret weapon, things like that. They are not for hanging on. That just slows you down.

Whether one day or multiple days, develop an efficient lower out system and get very good at it. There's plenty of them on the Nose and doing this skill poorly can make or break an ascent.

Also practice jugging until you have very efficient biomechanics. Then incorporate jugging into your climbing workouts. Different muscles groups get worked with jugging than free or aid climbing, and you'll want them well developed or serious cramps are a real possibility.

4. I think laps are Whiteside are actually a decent idea as well and worth doing as you get your technical skills dialed. I'd aim for 3 laps in a day using the systems you plan to use on the Nose: jugging, short fixing, simul climbing, etc. If you'll be hauling a bag, that's worth incorporating. You can probably do some aid/free transitions if you're creative, too. Maybe you could aid the coal corner on the vol wall? If I recall, the matrix is closely bolted in places, so you could work the A0 game? Things like that. If you're planning to go for a one day ascent, some big long mountain days (~18 hours would be good, too). Maybe you do all the free climbing on the north side, then climb the GM to the summit, trail run down the summit trail, trail run back up, rap the GM, do another lap on the GM, and then hang a rope off the roof pitch (it's 70m to the ground from there) and then just jug that rope repeatedly until desperation and exhaustion commingle into the sweet embrace of unconsciousness as you collapse to sleep in the dirt.

5. Finally, you'll need to practice all the wall camping skills. Spend a fair amount of time dialing your hauling system and incorporate this into your practice runs. If you're bringing a ledge (not a bad idea), practice setting it up and camping in it multiple times. Don't need to go far. Even just setting it up a pitch off the ground will let you practice all the logistics of set up, cooking, sleeping, pooping, etc

Hi Trae, it looks like you've received some generally sound advice here on prep for the Nose.  The "How to Big Wall Climb" book by Supertopo is a great resource for learning the essentials, and has a generic roadmap to the nose as well.  There are other, far more detailed and advanced, instructional books out there, but the Supertopo guide is great for learning to move efficiently on a wall- which is what I would recommend you focus on as you prep.  As others have mentioned, a solid base of climbing & hauling fitness is needed, as is a partner who you climb and communicate well with. However it's been my experience that the key to success on routes like The Nose is in having your systems fully dialed, and not wasting valuable minutes setting stuff up at the anchor or belay.  Those minutes quickly snowball into hours, which can snowball further into extra night(s) on the wall.  Many people who bail on the Nose are quite capable climbers who underestimate how seemingly small inefficiencies can quickly cascade into bailing.  Organization really pays dividends up there; on the wall, if you're not actively climbing or hauling, you should be organizing and prepping for the next pitch or haul/jug.  And if you're not organizing/climbing/hauling, you should be eating.  Or sleeping.

 Instead of focusing on volume of climbing, I would focus on dialing in your systems and moving efficiently in your aiders.  The NF of Looking Glass is a great place to train - maybe the best place on the east coast.  GM is a great route to measure yourself against.  Definitely try to apply some time pressure (artificially, if needed) as you practice, so that you can identify and eliminate time sucks.  Being efficient can mean the difference between getting to a cushy ledge and enjoying a sunset or getting stuck behind a slow party and suffering.  

Above all, enjoy the process!  It can be exhausting, but learning new skills that take you to incredible places is immensely rewarding.

Trae,

Hell yeah.  I will get on discord in the near future and will have to shoot for a link up with you in the july/Aug time frame for getting on GM.  Work/life is getting in the way from now until then.  I will be at the Glass this weekend and possibly Whiteside the weekend after but then work will get in the way for a month or so. Regardless I'll reach back out to you in the upcoming months. I aint getting any younger! So I am down to make an assault on the Nose!  I'll contact you via different means in the future. 

Scott

S Basso1wrote:

Trae,

Hell yeah.  I will get on discord in the near future and will have to shoot for a link up with you in the july/Aug time frame for getting on GM.  Work/life is getting in the way from now until then.  I will be at the Glass this weekend and possibly Whiteside the weekend after but then work will get in the way for a month or so. Regardless I'll reach back out to you in the upcoming months. I aint getting any younger! So I am down to make an assault on the Nose!  I'll contact you via different means in the future. 

Scott

We're planning on a trip to LG for Glass Menagerie on May 22.  Probably camp that Friday night and try for an early morning start.  Yeah man, Plenty of trips between now and next year so hopefully we'll run into each other.  Also Derek's feedback / plan above is not only exhausting just reading but damned good idea.  LOL.  I'm trying to collectively take all this great info in.   Amazed at how much people are trying to pass on knowledge to help folks be successful. 

Thanks man!

Derek DeBruinwrote:

@Trae: I think it's fully possible to gain the skills and fitness to climb the Nose while in the Southeast. I climbed in NC and across the south for 7 or 8 years before moving out west and I think it provided a pretty solid foundation for my climbing. However, Bill isn't wrong in the sense that 75% or so of parties on the Nose bail before Dolt Tower. The day we sent the Nose, every party below Dolt bailed aside from us. The odds are against you no matter where you're coming from.

Sounds like you're pretty motivated, and if we succeeded you can, too ;) I've only climbed one route in the Valley on my one trip there since I only had a week to work with. We did the Nose in a day, most of it onsight (did a Sickle and Dolt run before we went all the way). You can read a series of posts about it on my Instagram if you're so inclined:

https://www.instagram.com/p/By9GmbKjsfn/

My partner is also from the south. In fact, we met in Alabama, where the rocks are...not very tall. That didn't stop him from getting creative in developing his skills to climb walls:

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/109379296/whiteside-girdle

He also did a thing on Baffin Island, with another of our mutual friends from the south:

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web17c/newswire-first-ascent-marooned-at-midnight

I mention this not to spray but more to say that NC granite can be a great basis for bigger climbs in other places. However, you do have your work cut out for you. I think the Glass Menagerie plan is a good choice, but I'd add some other things to prep, too. It's also worth thinking about how you plan to climb. NIAD means you don't really need to dial the hauling and sleeping systems, but certainly the fitness. If you do multiday, I recommend 3 days with a fix and fire off Sickle Ledge. 2 days is about the worst possible way to go. Gotta haul and also gotta be fast: worst of both worlds. Here's the training plan that worked for us and what I would do if I were in the south.

1. Be fit, in a general sense. A wall (in a day or with a pig) means that general muscular endurance is very helpful. Spend time doing dead lifts, trail running, and carrying a heavy pack up a hill. Build big work capacity.

2. Be fit in a climbing specific sense. Head to the north side of Looking Glass and get your free climbing game on. The Nose is way more manageable when 5.10 feels super solid. Do big days with multiple laps on the Sperm, Womb, Safari Jive, Seal, Cornflake, Airwaves, Creatues, P1 of the GM. If you can't do the free moves, pull through them A0. Those bits of aid/free transitions will be helpful. Classic NC slab weirdness is also very helpful for the pitches to get to Sickle.

3. Develop your aid climbing skills. This is where the GM comes into play. Laps there will definitely help you figure out the C1 game (there's only small bits of C2 on the Nose). Sounds like it's your plan, but learn to aid quickly. Treat it like free climbing. Grab the piece, walk up the ladder, fire in the next piece. Your daisies are for jugging, clipping in at anchors, making sure you don't drop your aiders, maybe using a Yosemite secret weapon, things like that. They are not for hanging on. That just slows you down.

Whether one day or multiple days, develop an efficient lower out system and get very good at it. There's plenty of them on the Nose and doing this skill poorly can make or break an ascent.

Also practice jugging until you have very efficient biomechanics. Then incorporate jugging into your climbing workouts. Different muscles groups get worked with jugging than free or aid climbing, and you'll want them well developed or serious cramps are a real possibility.

4. I think laps are Whiteside are actually a decent idea as well and worth doing as you get your technical skills dialed. I'd aim for 3 laps in a day using the systems you plan to use on the Nose: jugging, short fixing, simul climbing, etc. If you'll be hauling a bag, that's worth incorporating. You can probably do some aid/free transitions if you're creative, too. Maybe you could aid the coal corner on the vol wall? If I recall, the matrix is closely bolted in places, so you could work the A0 game? Things like that. If you're planning to go for a one day ascent, some big long mountain days (~18 hours would be good, too). Maybe you do all the free climbing on the north side, then climb the GM to the summit, trail run down the summit trail, trail run back up, rap the GM, do another lap on the GM, and then hang a rope off the roof pitch (it's 70m to the ground from there) and then just jug that rope repeatedly until desperation and exhaustion commingle into the sweet embrace of unconsciousness as you collapse to sleep in the dirt.

5. Finally, you'll need to practice all the wall camping skills. Spend a fair amount of time dialing your hauling system and incorporate this into your practice runs. If you're bringing a ledge (not a bad idea), practice setting it up and camping in it multiple times. Don't need to go far. Even just setting it up a pitch off the ground will let you practice all the logistics of set up, cooking, sleeping, pooping, etc

Whew.... You....  You sir are awesome!  This is some seriously good advice.  A lot to digest.  
One of the things I hadn't really thought of... and is an interesting point is '2 day ascent of The Nose is probably the worst of both worlds' That does kind of make sense.  I really want to do NIAD but fitness is going to be a huge factor in whether or not that is possible. I'm pretty much going Michael Biehn in "K2" on my training. lol. Anyway, a lot to consume.  Thank you so much again!