Introducing Climb United

soft cruxwrote:

Who can name a more cynical example of corporate virtue signaling?

Who can name a more lame example of aggrievement weeping than creating a profile a few days ago to raise the alarm about nothing happening in reality 

Fake views. 

soft cruxwrote:

Before you call me alarmist, I'm not worried at all. 

You were worried enough to make a brand new account for this thread specifically

Mark Pilatewrote:

Who can name a more lame example of aggrievement weeping than creating a profile a few days ago to raise the alarm about nothing happening in reality 

Fake views. 

99% of the people posting here for the opportunity to call other climbers racists don't have a clue what goes into publishing a guidebook. The guy that bought his bright red suit at Eddie Bauer is likely in that category.

OMG brand new account!!! That's a 1/10 retort score. Try addressing the issue.

AAC raised their dues recently. They said it was to improve their rescue insurance. When some climbers asked why it was better the AAC guy gave a vauge response.

"We've aimed at creating more clarity with the new benefit, but it seems we still have some improvements that can be made with how we describe the changes." lol

Do you know anyone that's ever used the AAC insurance or even how to use it? Seems that the AAC doesn't know either. If you want  to give your money to an organization that can't give a straightforward response to a simple question about their finances, go right ahead.

Why the dues increase? Surely not to pay their new diversity team that will be working hard to make guidebook publishing even harder.  I agree with you that it's about nothing happening in reality.

Climb United

Franck Veewrote:

We all have our baggage. Sometimes we can be uneasy with things due to it. I do not think it is necessarily the world's job to deal with it for us in all cases - sometimes the balanced reaction would be to work on oneself instead.

Say the incel thing - is it to woman all over to deal with the fact some man is a frustrated celibate? Or perhaps is it more to that man to deal with his behavior/perception/relationship with woman? Clearly making fun of a guy for being unpopular with woman is a being a jerk, and I'd support removing a post that does that. Yet clearly that guy could genuinely be offended/pissed by things because he has a broken relationship with woman in general. I would argue that some here felt offended by the creation of the woman's forum, or at least the arguments when that was done sure make it feel that way. Not saying all those arguing against the forum were incels. But clearly, one can genuinely feel offended (e.g. he is broken in that respect), yet one probably isn't right to be. That feeling of being offended, or feeling uneasy about something, is the mind's way to tell oneself that something is wrong. That can something can be externel, or internal. Likely the best answer in each case is different. Yet we currently act as if the cause is always external, and as is the answer is always to change the world.

Why are you judging the incel's feelings? I agree that it is incorrect for him to blame women, but that doesn't mean he doesn't feel what he feels. The feeling still isn't 'wrong,' it just is.

Again, it would be unfair to say that if someone posts an offensive route name, people should blame that person and call them a bad person. They may be a bad person, they may be mistaken, they may be playing on an inside joke, they may be a teenage edgelord. Jumping to the conclusion that the FAist is a bigot would be unfair. But the feeling of hurt from the name is still the feeling. 

This thread isn't about whether certain climbers are bigots or not. It is about guidelines for publishers of other people's route names. If I say I'll give you a dollar to go call some guy a n***er, you don't have to decide if I'm a racist or not. You just have to decide if you are going to do it. After you decide what you want to do, you can decide if I'm being a racist. Separate questions.

A self appointed committee of self important leeches imposing Their arbitrary rules on others.....

Hows this help anyone? 

Visit the website.... they aint fighting for anything but your dollars. Corporate greed bs wrapped in a pretty package with a fancy bow. 

JonasMRwrote:

Why are you judging the incel's feelings? I agree that it is incorrect for him to blame women, but that doesn't mean he doesn't feel what he feels. The feeling still isn't 'wrong,' it just is.

I disagree somewhat. Feeling something is perfectly fine - it's a signal from our mind (or body) to our consciousness to make us aware of something. While the feeling itself isn't right/wrong, I think there' sort of  extremes on a continuum that we can pin:

• Yes, maybe "the thing" is indeed wrong and the world would be better off without it. E.g. a climb named "bitche nigger" or "I love Jim Crow" or "Happyness in slavery" or whatever. There's the 80% of us agreeing on stuff I talked about. Our answer as a community is becoming "allright, let's try to get ride of that as best we can". I am fine with that, as most people I are.
• But sometimes, MAYBE, the real issue about me feeling uneasy about something isn't necessarily "the thing" or "the world". MAYBE the real issue is inward. Again, get back to the women's forum creation.  I'm sure if we were to create a lgbt forum the same would happen. Yet, our answer in that case seems NOT to be to try to conform the world to the person that feels uneasy (e.g. not creating those forums), but to disregard them. Why? Because I think it's fair to that if one feels bad about there having a forum for women, the real issue isn't really with having a forum for women but with one's reaction/perspective on it. 

Yet, in my perspective, the reaction seems mostly as-if only the 1st case exist, and thus the answer is always to adapt the world to the person. Introspection isn't part of it.

Again, it would be unfair to say that if someone posts an offensive route name, people should blame that person and call them a bad person. They may be a bad person, they may be mistaken, they may be playing on an inside joke, they may be a teenage edgelord. Jumping to the conclusion that the FAist is a bigot would be unfair. But the feeling of hurt from the name is still the feeling. 

This thread isn't about whether certain climbers are bigots or not. It is about guidelines for publishers of other people's route names. If I say I'll give you a dollar to go call some guy a n***er, you don't have to decide if I'm a racist or not. You just have to decide if you are going to do it. After you decide what you want to do, you can decide if I'm being a racist. Separate questions.

I absolutely didn't mention that in my comment. I am unsure why you insist on bringing this up. I feel like you're responding to FrankPS or Whiskerz or softcrux, not me.

soft cruxwrote:

99% of the people posting here for the opportunity to call other climbers racists don't have a clue what goes into publishing a guidebook. The guy that bought his bright red suit at Eddie Bauer is likely in that category.

Seems publishers are members of the panel and are involved.  Anyone can be involved.  I just don’t understand the alarm over discussion of the issues and the stated goals.   I completely understand how runaway “wokeness” can be detrimental, just not seeing a big threat to publishing or free speech here yet.  

OMG brand new account!!! That's a 1/10 retort score. Try addressing the issue.

It is curious.  At least to those of us who use our names and consistently stand behind what we say or post.  

AAC raised their dues recently. They said it was to improve their rescue insurance. When some climbers asked why it was better the AAC guy gave a vauge response.

Well, the fees definitely didn’t go to improving the website and interfaces I can tell you that, but that’s a different issue.  

Do you know anyone that's ever used the AAC insurance or even how to use it? Seems that the AAC doesn't know either. If you want  to give your money to an organization that can't give a straightforward response to a simple question about their finances, go right ahead.

I guess for my yearly time in the Tetons it’s worth it.  I really couldn’t care less about the other stuff.   Anything else is gratis. 

soft cruxwrote:

 The guy that bought his bright red suit at Eddie Bauer is likely in that category.

???   Can someone translate this for me?  9 pages and I think I might have missed something...

ed “who wonders what John Sherman would think about ’Climb United’...” e

Franck Vee wrote:

The reason why that's argument is rather for yourself - if your opinion is such that you're uneasy about expressing it as yourself, that should probably tell you something about either yourself or your opinion.

You assuming it’s a pseudonym is pretty belittling of Mr. Soft Crux’s name.

-Colonel Edmund Mustard

We need more Todds in the world, and possibly fewer soft cruxes.  

I mean sure, the illusion of climbing harder in the moment your send it is nice, but the satisfaction is fleeting, compared to a good 'ol sandbag.

Hey everyone, at 10 pages can we head over to the new WA Guidebook thread? This dead horse has been beaten and I think that thread could Be the next 10 pager.

B Pwrote:

Hey everyone, at 10 pages can we head over to the new WA Guidebook thread? This dead horse has been beaten and I think that thread could Be the next 10 pager.

Link?

soft cruxwrote:

Wow, that's a power move! Donating to the AAC just to spite me. I'm flattered that I can make a difference in your life.The best part is that you could have used that money to help one of the many organizations that directly benefit underprivileged climbers. But I'm sure your cash will be well spent on planning committee offsites and professional photography.

Now if you really want to up your self-serving and wasteful charity game, go for the Komen fund. Don't waste your money on actual cancer patients when you can feed the pink machine.

Still wondering, does anyone even know anyone that has utilized AAC insurance? Seems weird how there are no examples.

Attacking the Komen fund in a climbing forum??? Lol!

Okeydokey....

As for the AAC? 

Simple. Myself, and a great many others, like that they compile accidents into a useful compendium. They do other stuff, but that's good enough for me.

As to raising their dues? WTF do you care? Spend that money....or not. I sure as hell don't care what you choose to support, or not, nor do I care what your opinion is about my choices. It's simply.... irrelevant.

.............

For the thoughtful folks on here? 

Having conversations helps.

Here's an example of something well meaning but still thoughtless, in the innocently clueless sense.

Recently, there was a nice article put out by Climbing with tips for shorter climbers. That's fine...

However. It was written by a guy who is 5'6". That's still fine. Yes, he is "short"....but only when the metric is the 5'9" average for adult males. 

He is still taller than the 5'4" average for adult women.

A simple acknowledgement of that would be nice, but it isn't worth the tar and feathers MP likes to go for. But it likely didn't even cross his mind. It also got past editors. Hmmmm. And? All it might take? Is just getting ribbed by a woman climbing friend. How can you expect anyone to know something like this....until they do? Once you've had the chance to ponder for even a second, it's easy.

Then, you can decide what to do with that.

Just...."average" maybe, perhaps, might also include the rest of us? If it has not, in the past, perhaps it might, in the future?

Extrapolate that "average" out to products? 

Then it gets harder. 

Think about sizing clothes and equipment for special uses, climbing sure, but one that came up close to home is stuff for wildland firefighters. Women just have to make do with too large. That's not just a nicety, it's a safety issue. 

But it means a conscious effort and investment to manufacture something to a market that is small....but growing. Do you build it and jump on that market or wait?

Small things do matter, and little changes add up, eventually.

Best, Helen

The Komen fund was a great example of waste and greed in our society. Guaranteed the person who couldn't answer the insurance question was a paid social media "specialist" who doesn't even know what exactly they do.

M Mwrote:

The Komen fund was a great example of waste and greed in our society. Guaranteed the person who couldn't answer the insurance question was a paid social media "specialist" who doesn't even know what exactly they do.

Okay, Komen is/was flawed. Fine.

What's that to do with the AAC? They upped their dues, so what? It's their choice to do so. It's up to us to join....or not.

Like I said, Accidents in NA Climbing is good enough for me, but even if my money was being wasted, so what? 

It's just random pot stirring. 

Kinda fits the definition of a troll, eh?

;-)

Old lady Hwrote:

Okay, Komen is/was flawed. Fine.

What's that to do with the AAC? They upped their dues, so what? It's their choice to do so. It's up to us to join....or not.

What does regulating our language have to do with the AAC? 

Answer: About as much as the Komen Foundation - nothing.

A climbing organization should stick to climbing.

Old lady Hwrote:

Okay, Komen is/was flawed. Fine.

What's that to do with the AAC? They upped their dues, so what? It's their choice to do so. It's up to us to join....or not.

Like I said, Accidents in NA Climbing is good enough for me, but even if my money was being wasted, so what? 

It's just random pot stirring. 

Kinda fits the definition of a troll, eh?

;-)

Staying on top of where the money actually goes is disheartening to say the least. Efficiency starts and ends locally, beyond that someone is ALWAYS skimming too much off the top. 

Freedom of speech and butthurtedness is American, we can survive it.

FrankPSwrote:

A climbing organization should stick to climbing.

Any organization should represent the ideals of its members. Sound like they're doing what their board decides is okay for the organization. 

Why should you be concerned, you weren't planning on renewing anyway

PWZwrote:

Any organization should represent the ideals of its members. Sound like they're doing what their board decides is okay for the organization. 

Why should you be concerned, you weren't planning on renewing anyway

He’s virtue signaling.