SPI ??

John Penca wrote:

What does one do with an SPI certificate?

Well, it's helped me score with a lot of women; nothing turns a lady on like giving her the bedroom eyes and telling her you're an SPI.

But really, mine, with my first aid certs, gives a local guiding service the confidence (and maybe the insurance coverage) to not only let me help with groups but also take out private parties by myself and teach lead/anchors courses as well.

It unfortunately doesn't keep me employed full-time, but it's a nice side gig; some days I've made $300 including tips. That's not bad for spending the day outside and climbing and setting up topropes.

Of course people have to have their systems down, but I think a lot of the stories you hear about high failure rates have a lot to do with the instructor as well. My instructor told us that on average, 1 in 4 pass his exam the first time, and he seemed proud of that. I have four friends who all took the exam the same day with a different instructor, and all four failed. (To be fair, three of them really had no business taking the course much less the exam at that point.)

But as others have said, practice everything until you have it dialed. Go out with friends and practice the rescues and assists and rappels. If you don't feel ready, you probably aren't.

Dan Rapp wrote: Is 70% the norm?  And how many time are the students allowed to retake the exam?  Thanks again for the input.

When I took it, everyone passed except one guy who did a really poor job, I believe there were 6 of us.   I can't recall if you're allowed a retake or not. 

No way it is 70% fail rate.  Going to need a source on that number.

I have only heard of one not passing and everyone else I know has passed first time.  

First the course: In my course three of the five students had less than 18 months of climbing experience. That, in itself, is not a problem, except that most people with that amount of time have probably been focused on climbing, not building anchors, raising/lowering others, and TEACHING. Remember, SPI is an Instructor course, prepping you to be responsible for, and instructing, others. Problem #2 in my course was the lack of study by most of the students in advance of the course. (Not knowing a Munter/Mule prior to the course is not a good sign.) This, despite the fact that the SPI Manual was sent to us well in advance. Problem #3 is that you will often see the Assessment offered right after the course, leading many to believe they can do them back to back; bad idea. Most people need to take the learning from the course and spend time refining before the Assessment.

The Assessment: Again, this is assessing if you are prepared to take a small group of climbers to a top rope crag. This includes being prepared to get them there safely and efficiently, setting anchors, prepping the rope and site management, teaching about the equipment, knots, belaying, movement, and all the other things that a “good instructor” should be able to do. In the worse case, you must be able to raise, lower, rescue a student that is struggling or scared.

In my assessment there were four of us: two SPIs recerting, a working guide taking his SPI for the first time, and me - a longtime climber who (as an instructor in a variety of other areas) believes in being over-prepared. We all passed, but our instructor was quick to point out we were exceptional in that respect; most assessments have about a 50% pass rate in his experience.

Final points: People will dis the AMGA, the SPI, etc., but the AMGA is trying to professionalize the teaching/guiding industry. This means setting standards. I’ve met working guides who choose not to recert their SPI; ok. But if you want to get into guiding the SPI is the front door. While I teach friends or give pointers to others at the crag, I don’t work for a firm or get paid for teaching. I took the SPI for my own enrichment of skills, knowledge, and a new perspective, among other reasons. Which leads to my final point: The skills I learned make me a safer and better climber (as have other courses I’ve invested in). These skills will help me and others well past the 3-year certification. Bonus point: I met a great climbing partner in my Assessment.

If anyone interested in the SPI is close to the Eastern Sierra, I took both my course and Assessment with Sierra Mountain Guides and Viren Perumal. Recommended!

I hope this adds to the conversation.

Buck Rogers wrote: No way it is 70% fail rate. Going to need a source on that number.

I have only heard of one not passing and everyone else I know has passed first time.  

75% fail rate for my SPI assessment.  3 out of 4 of us failed.  

BryanOC wrote:

75% fail rate for my SPI assessment.  3 out of 4 of us failed.  

Out of curiosity, can you fail the SPI exam for something not related to technical systems or safety, but more towards the "client experience" end of things? i took an SPI course years ago but never took the exam.

curt86iroc wrote:

Out of curiosity, can you fail the SPI exam for something not related to technical systems or safety, but more towards the "client experience" end of things? i took an SPI course years ago but never took the exam.

the client side is why all of us failed.  The technical side is the easy part. 

The client guiding day was very very difficult.  we had 14 clients and 4 of us guides.  

things we did wrong:

-didn’t get the clients on enough routes (we were all trying our best and we were all busy the entire time)

-didn’t give the clients enough beta while they were climbing

-Took to long to fit all of them for harnesses is helmets and shoes

-our lesson presentations weren’t good enough

-One person stuck his finger through a bolt to aid and we forgot to explicitly mention not to do this during that briefings to the clients.  

-The instructor asked me to set up a top rope route on a wall I have never been on.  I built an acceptable anchor but I dropped it down a little bit off the climbing line, and would have had to set it up again.  I made the mistake of not spotting the route well enough from the ground, and/or putting a marker on the ground so I knew where to drop the rope.  this was lost time. 

IMO, the SPI course was woefully inadequate to prepare us to handle this many clients and expect us to give them a perfectly smooth experience.  

I have heard vastly different experiences with assessments.  I think I may have had a particularly difficult instructor.  

edit: and let me say that i deserved to fail my exam.  not arguing that decision.  the sticking point that i have is all of the nuanced “soft skills” required aren’t covered very well in the book or the course.  most of the people in my class had years and years of professional “guiding type” experience. either through outward bound, nols, an actual k-12 school, etc.  these things are important if you are to become an instructor taking out newbie boy scouts.  

Interesting, thanks Bryan. 14 clients sounds like a lot to handle.

How do you know who has their SPI at the party? They will tell you. 

BryanOC wrote:

the client side is why all of us failed.  The technical side is the easy part. 

The client guiding day was very very difficult.  we had 14 clients and 4 of us guides.  

things we did wrong:

-didn’t get the clients on enough routes (we were all trying our best and we were all busy the entire time)

-didn’t give the clients enough beta while they were climbing

-Took to long to fit all of them for harnesses is helmets and shoes

-our lesson presentations weren’t good enough

-One person stuck his finger through a bolt to aid and we forgot to explicitly mention not to do this during that briefings to the clients.  

-The instructor asked me to set up a top rope route on a wall I have never been on.  I built an acceptable anchor but I dropped it down a little bit off the climbing line, and would have had to set it up again.  I made the mistake of not spotting the route well enough from the ground, and/or putting a marker on the ground so I knew where to drop the rope.  this was lost time. 

IMO, the SPI course was woefully inadequate to prepare us to handle this many clients and expect us to give them a perfectly smooth experience.  

I have heard vastly different experiences with assessments.  I think I may have had a particularly difficult instructor.  

Damn!  That's rough.

Where did you take your exam?

I got my SPI at the age of 59 after having been a recreational climber for almost 40. You gotta know the technical systems and become proficient at them or you’re gonna have issues at your course. You need to come prepared. Get the SPI manual and practice beforehand. You’re actually graded at this point after your course before you take the exam. Most good SPI providers are gonna tell you wait six months to a year before taking the exam.

The non climbing side of the exam is just as important as the technical side. Mitigating risk and client care are a big part of what you need to be aware of and practice at all times.

I took the exam at three months and was the only one to pass in my group. Not knowing exactly I’d say one didn’t pass on technical skills and two were probably the soft skills side of instructing. 

Rob Fulton wrote: .  It can be a humbling reminder that our friends, as well as our selves, might not be as cool and all knowing as we think we are.

BLASPHEMY! We're all, individually, the best thing to happen since sliced bread.

BryanOC wrote:

the client side is why all of us failed.  The technical side is the easy part. 

The client guiding day was very very difficult.  we had 14 clients and 4 of us guides.  

things we did wrong:

-didn’t get the clients on enough routes (we were all trying our best and we were all busy the entire time)

-didn’t give the clients enough beta while they were climbing

-Took to long to fit all of them for harnesses is helmets and shoes

-our lesson presentations weren’t good enough

-One person stuck his finger through a bolt to aid and we forgot to explicitly mention not to do this during that briefings to the clients.  

-The instructor asked me to set up a top rope route on a wall I have never been on.  I built an acceptable anchor but I dropped it down a little bit off the climbing line, and would have had to set it up again.  I made the mistake of not spotting the route well enough from the ground, and/or putting a marker on the ground so I knew where to drop the rope.  this was lost time. 

IMO, the SPI course was woefully inadequate to prepare us to handle this many clients and expect us to give them a perfectly smooth experience.  

I have heard vastly different experiences with assessments.  I think I may have had a particularly difficult instructor.  

Let me guess - josh Jackson?

What level climbing are they requiring you to complete?

i know a ton of people who have taken the SPI exam, and a lot of folks who administer the exam, and you can basically break down the people who don't pass into 3 categories.

1) technically not competent.  like others, i know folks who had been climbing for 10 years and still couldn't place gear - they had zero chance of passing.

2) too slow (this is kind of a tough one - if it is just for an SPI exam i don't think i would bust their chops as long as they weren't insanely slow).

3) client management issues - for example, if the client is wearing a ring - say something.  or, when a client is toproping and they get far off line and looking at a shitty pendulum fall, if the testee doesn't say something it's game over.  those types of things.

i think naturally people will focus at working on the things they enjoy, or are already proficient at doing.  for example, gear geeks will spend their training time building anchors.  folks who like to climb will spend their time climbing.  social folks will spend their time working on presentation skills, etc.  you really need to train for what you will be tested on.

I wonder if perhaps the amga is getting actually getting stricter on what they will pass.  Years ago there were fewer spi guides and the market needed them so they passed almost all who were not outrightly dangerous.  Now almost everyone you run into is spi so they can be more picky.

Years ago i heard that almost everyone on passed.  Then about 6 years ago i heard of someone failing due to a poor gear placement.  Now i am hearing 3 out of 4 are sometimes failing.

jc5462 wrote:

What level climbing are they requiring you to complete?

Very easy.  You need to lead 5.6 trad fast and safe and be able to top rope 5.8 without any difficulties.

Much easier than the Basic Rock Guide Course which requires you to have lead ten 5.10a routes and be leading strong 5.9 trad at the time of the course, at a minimum.

Anyone take the SPI exam in Golden, CO?  

I took the course in the Gunks in late 2019 and was suppose to test last fall but COVID squashed my travel plans.  

Now that I’m moving to Colorado Springs it looks like Golden is not too far away and I’ll probably sign up to take it there.

Buck Rogers wrote:

Anyone take the SPI exam in Golden, CO?  

I took the course in the Gunks in late 2019 and was suppose to test last fall but COVID squashed my travel plans.  

Now that I’m moving to Colorado Springs it looks like Golden is not too far away and I’ll probably sign up to take it there.

I took my course in Golden, but not the exam. However, I may be able to recommend some people if you are interested. Just PM me.