SPI ??

  I was climbing with a couple friends the other day, both of witch are trying to get their single pitch instructor certificate. They  told me they expect to fail the final exam, as nearly 70% do. They both spent a lot of money for the course and  plan to spend a lot for the final.  Can anyone comment on this?  It seems the instructor is over charging, and under teaching, basically ripping my friends off

Dan Rapp wrote:   I was climbing with a couple friends the other day, both of witch are trying to get their single pitch instructor certificate. They  told me they expect to fail the final exam, as nearly 70% do. They both spent a lot of money for the course and  plan to spend a lot for the final.  Can anyone comment on this?  It seems the instructor is over charging, and under teaching, basically ripping my friends off

Instructors in a Guide course (or any course) can’t teach you everything. It is your responsibility to practice and develop skills just like any other career it takes more than a simple class to pass a test. 

Most people aren’t ready to progress into a career like guiding/rope Access and think because they take a course they deserve to have these skills. 

Is 70% the norm?  And how many time are the students allowed to retake the exam?  Thanks again for the input.

Just curious, where is the course being held and how much are they charging?

I did a LOT of prep work before my course, and even more work before I took my final exam. Its not a gimmie. But with some studying and some time on the ropes, it should be no big deal. 

Dan Rapp wrote: Is 70% the norm?  And how many time are the students allowed to retake the exam?  Thanks again for the input.

I can’t imagien the Exam failure rate being 70% (Unless highly unqualified people are taking the test).

If you review the materials and are prepared the exam itself is pretty easy. Everyone in my group passed.

But it's not just a climbing exam, you need to be profecient at safe anchors, rigging, rescue and client skills.

The few I know got it first try.  But they also had tons of rope work/ climbing experience. They just had to fine tune their skills to satisfy the guide way...

I think they are taking exam at sand rock alabama.  I dont know what aspects they are struggling with.  Its just the failure rate seems to reflect poorly on the instructor.

why do they want to take the exam? are they trying to become guides?

i only ask because if they are just taking the course for knowledge, don't waste your time with the test.

curt86iroc wrote: why do they want to take the exam? are they trying to become guides?

i only ask because if they are just taking the course for knowledge, don't waste your time with the test.

Was kinda wondering the same thing. What does one do with an SPI certificate?

John Penca wrote:

Was kinda wondering the same thing. What does one do with an SPI certificate?

With an SPI you can get paid to take clients top roping on rock (while working for a legitimate, insured guiding company). I think they might be able to take people top roping on ice too. SPI is what most instructors at at gym -> crag events like the ones REI runs would have. 

John Penca wrote:

Was kinda wondering the same thing. What does one do with an SPI certificate?

Throw it away after 3 years? (it expires)

I have never heard that 70% failure rate number before. I passed it the first time and passed my recert (with a different provider)  both times the whole class passed. My impression is that they do everything they can to get you to the level of competence where you can pass the test. I have experienced a very high level of professionalism with all the providers I have worked with even the one I I didn't get along with. 

Bobby Hutton wrote: I have never heard that 70% failure rate number before. I passed it the first time and passed my recert (with a different provider)  both times the whole class passed. My impression is that they do everything they can to get you to the level of competence where you can pass the test. I have experienced a very high level of professionalism with all the providers I have worked with even the one I I didn't get along with. 

I second this. I know of 4 people who don’t belong guiding anyone that have their SPI. Two friends I know did fail. (One ties a mule knot wrong & the other wasn’t tied off or something). That being said everything in the SPI criteria is super basic (top/bottom belay, basic toprope anchoring, basic Rescue, basic haul, releaseable rappel, etc).

in positions of responsibility. 

Depends on who gives the exams. Some examiners are extremely tough and pride themselves on failing as many people as possible. Others are so lax it makes you wonder why we have these standards in the first place. Unfortunately I haven't seen much from the AMGA in terms of a consistent standard so you'll have to roll the dice. If you are in California I recommend Bob Gaines or Nelson Day, they are great and objectively there to provide the service.

Had one exam where 5 of 6 of us failed... I took too long to build an anchor and failed because of that. Passed with flying colors 2 weeks later with another examiner. 

Its a millennial problem, they think taking a class with good attendance gets them a pass. Cant blame them though, 1 it hurts their feelings and 2 thats what their schooling did to them.

The SPI allows you to tell others you are an SPI.   It's kinda like Crossfit.  

Fun Police wrote: Intelligence is normally distributed in respect to overall population. The problem here, is that 50% of people think they’re above the average.

Uhhhh....that 50% is correct

70% actually sounds about right.  I think its a huge cop out to say that these #s fall on the instructor and his curriculum though.  I have been climbing and instructing for years and was surprised by some of the things needed for the SPI.  30% passing doesn't mean anything about the course other than their standard of quality they look for to succeed.  It can be a humbling reminder that our friends, as well as our selves, might not be as cool and all knowing as we think we are.

Rob Fulton wrote:....It can be a humbling reminder that our friends, as well as our selves, might not be as cool and all knowing as we think we are.

Reminds me of a song....

Stop! Hold on. Stay in control

Girl, I want, you here with me
But I'm really not as cool as I'd like to be
'Cause there's a red, under my bed
And there's a little yellow man in my head
And there's a true, blue, inside of me
That keeps stoppin' me, touchin' ya, watchin' ya, belayin' ya

If they expect to fail, tell them to postpone their exam.   No reason to go into the exam thinking they are going to fail.  Better to take time to review the skills and practice them.  Maybe they can find some SPIs or Rock guides and go out with them to work on things.  Gaining experience and being comfortable with the skills are important.   You also have to adapt to doing things the AMGA way.  When they feel ready, they can sign up for an exam.